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Old 04-29-2015, 11:18 AM   #21
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The review team is trying to make sure you are not setting them up for a warranty issue.

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Old 04-29-2015, 11:57 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill and Earline View Post
Dave,
I did some studying on Toyota's "weight carrying hitch" then took mine off and replaced it with an aftermarket hitch for our 21'. The WCH appears to be fully capable for downward forces, but was bolted only to a rear cross-member, not the frame rails. The bolts used appeared very strong but were concentrated in an area about 4 by 5 inches. The receiver I installed also bolts to the same rear cross member and also to each of the frame rails. According to my Toyota owner's manual, this more complete receiver design allows a higher tow rating, and more importantly allows a weight distributing hitch, which is what I was after. My guess is the Toyota engineers thought a WDH would put too much strain on the what is essentially the single mounting point of the WCH.

My 4Runner has very little squat from the trailer, with or without the WDH, so I'd get info from other 4Runner owners on the need for the WDH at all with their 17s. I just thought I could help out with the definition and description of the factory Toyota receiver. I ended up with the Andersen hitch which also serves as sway control. Other less expensive sway controls are available, including one ETI sells and installs. I didn't know whether I needed one. With the weight of the 21', I just did everything to try to be safe. I might not have gotten the Andersen or the new receiver with a 17.
Bill
I did exactly the same as Bill. The V8 4Runner uses a hitch similar to the aftermarket ones that are attached to the side frame rails these direct the load to that main frame structure, The V6 uses more of a hitch block that is attached to the rear crossmember, this relys on the integrity of that crossmember which is probably not designed for the twisting loads experienced by a WDH.

So I also installed the aftermarket hitch and it worked flawlessly with similar comments that Bill made
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Old 04-29-2015, 12:09 PM   #23
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BTW, my Hidden Hitch receiver ( class III for WDH ) was installed at the dealership prior to me taking possession.
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Old 04-29-2015, 05:20 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave & Penny Smith View Post
My owner's manual calls the factory installed receiver hitch that came with the vehicle a "Weight Carrying Hitch" and states that WDH cannot be used with the receiver hitch that came on my 4Runner. Thus, it appears that if I will need a WDH to tow the 17B, I'll need to replace the receiver hitch. What experience do people have with the need for WDH for 17Bs?
Right... replace only if you need WDH. I think you're on the right track asking about experience; you could also look at why a WDH would be used, and if that reason applies to you. The primary purpose of a WDH is to reduce load on the tug's rear axle, and if that's not excessively loaded with the desired trailer's tongue weight, then you may not have any need for WDH.

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Originally Posted by Dave & Penny Smith View Post
Another issue is the need for a "sway control device". Toyota says that this is required if the trailer weighs over 2,000 lb.--which the 17B clearly does. What information have folks found regarding these questions?
My 2004 Sienna manual stated the same requirement, and when I asked Toyota Canada for clarification, they said that the sway control requirement was no longer applicable. I don't use any sway control device with my 3000 pound trailer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill and Earline View Post
I did some studying on Toyota's "weight carrying hitch" then took mine off and replaced it with an aftermarket hitch for our 21'. The WCH appears to be fully capable for downward forces, but was bolted only to a rear cross-member, not the frame rails. The bolts used appeared very strong but were concentrated in an area about 4 by 5 inches. The receiver I installed also bolts to the same rear cross member and also to each of the frame rails. According to my Toyota owner's manual, this more complete receiver design allows a higher tow rating, and more importantly allows a weight distributing hitch, which is what I was after. My guess is the Toyota engineers thought a WDH would put too much strain on the what is essentially the single mounting point of the WCH.
Excellent info, and makes perfect sense.

In general, Toyota practice - at least as of a couple years ago:
  • cars: no provision for hitch
  • unibody SUVs and van: planned mounting points in unibody
  • body-on-frame SUVs: base hitch mounts to rearmost crossmember of frame << 4Runner
  • trucks: hitch is part of bumper structure or separate part integrated with bumper structure, bolted to frame rails in either case

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Originally Posted by gbaglo View Post
BTW, my Hidden Hitch receiver ( class III for WDH ) was installed at the dealership prior to me taking possession.
That's pretty normal. The OEM accessory hitch is dealer-installed, but dealers also offer aftermarket hitches (as part of the purchase package), either installed by the dealer or the dealer sends the vehicle out to a hitch shop for installation.
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Old 04-29-2015, 05:28 PM   #25
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To expand on my reply here are pictures of the original 4Runner hitch compared to the aftermarket, The last picture is the two hitches side by side.




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Old 04-29-2015, 06:29 PM   #26
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Your Hidden Hitch looks almost identical to the "OEM" hitch I bought from Toyota(included wiring harness) for $298 for my son's 2004 Highlander.
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Old 04-29-2015, 06:57 PM   #27
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To expand on my reply here are pictures of the original 4Runner hitch compared to the aftermarket...
Thank Ian.
I think it's unfortunate - but not surprising - that the aftermarket hitch doesn't tie into the crossmember like the OEM hitch, in addition to extending to the frame.

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Your Hidden Hitch looks almost identical to the "OEM" hitch I bought from Toyota(included wiring harness) for $298 for my son's 2004 Highlander.
They all look pretty much the same, even between different hitch brands and different vehicle models. It may be that the OEM hitch is made by Cequent (the company whose brands include Hidden Hitch as well as Draw-Tite and Reese); my OEM Sienna hitch was made by Cequent.
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Old 04-29-2015, 07:24 PM   #28
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Thank Ian.
I think it's unfortunate - but not surprising - that the aftermarket hitch doesn't tie into the crossmember like the OEM hitch, in addition to extending to the frame.
Brian you totally misunderstood my post, the aftermarket DOES NOT tie into the crossmember because that is NOT as structurally sound as the main frame rails. Looking at the design of the crossmember it will definitely handle a vertical load better that any rotational forces. The V6 OEM is only connected to the stamped steel crossmember is a much weaker connection. This is evident the V8 4Runner version which uses a design similar to the aftermarket, does have a WDH rating and has increased tow capacity.
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Old 04-29-2015, 09:39 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian G View Post
Brian you totally misunderstood my post, the aftermarket DOES NOT tie into the crossmember because that is NOT as structurally sound as the main frame rails. Looking at the design of the crossmember it will definitely handle a vertical load better that any rotational forces. The V6 OEM is only connected to the stamped steel crossmember is a much weaker connection. This is evident the V8 4Runner version which uses a design similar to the aftermarket, does have a WDH rating and has increased tow capacity.
You guys really had me double-checking all this. I installed a Hidden Hitch 70779 that appears the same as the one in Ian's photo. It uses three bolts into each of the frame rails and one toward each end into the cross member, just not in the center location as in the V-6 OEM weight carrying receiver. That's a total of 8 bolts in mine, now. I am pleased with mine, but again, not sure it's necessary for a 17. Hidden Hitch has installation manuals on their site, if anyone wants to take a look. I paid $153 delivered last August.
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Old 04-30-2015, 10:29 AM   #30
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It's very important to consider the year and model of 4 runners. That can make a huge difference. Our 06 V8 Ltd came with the WDH receiver which states on it that it will tow 7,000 lbs and carry 700 lbs hitch weight. With a weight distributing hitch the tongue weight goes up to 10,000. We also had a 05 V6 4runner with the WCH. We did use a WDH with built in sway control with the Casita on that vehicle (maybe we shouldn't have - we were newbies and Casita recommended it!). Toyota is very specific about their hitches and towing capacities - you don't need to call - just read the manual. They also state that your vehicle may be able to tow more with a different hitch properly installed. This is for 4runners only.

Be safe, have fun!
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Old 04-30-2015, 04:02 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Ian G View Post
Brian you totally misunderstood my post, the aftermarket DOES NOT tie into the crossmember because that is NOT as structurally sound as the main frame rails. Looking at the design of the crossmember it will definitely handle a vertical load better that any rotational forces. The V6 OEM is only connected to the stamped steel crossmember is a much weaker connection. This is evident the V8 4Runner version which uses a design similar to the aftermarket, does have a WDH rating and has increased tow capacity.
No, I understood it.
  • OEM for V6: attached only to crossmember, not strong enough for WD
  • aftermarket and OEM for V8: attached only to framerails, tube of receiver is stronger than crossmember

I think that it would be better if the aftermarket and V8 hitches had a connection to the crossmember (where the OEM V6 hitch box attaches) in addition to the structure it already has. The combination would be stronger... although obviously the aftermarket/V8 design is strong enough by itself for the rated towing capacity of the vehicle.
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Old 04-30-2015, 04:37 PM   #32
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Who pulls stock with no mods but a trailer brake?
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Old 04-30-2015, 04:50 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Bill and Earline View Post
It uses three bolts into each of the frame rails and one toward each end into the cross member...
Yep, exactly as I would expect from Ian's photo. For anyone who would like an illustration: Hidden Hitch 70779 installation instructions (note that this is also the Reese 44548 and
Draw-Tite 75155).

Also, I note that in the instructions that rear crossmember is called the "impact bar", because it is also the bumper structure.

Finally, the same hitch fits the Lexus GX470, because that's the Lexus-badged version of the same vehicle.
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Old 04-30-2015, 05:22 PM   #34
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I found it curious that some models of Toyota and Honda are not to be used with WDH. I have had a Chrysler minivan and Jeep Grand Cherokee with factory tow packages, and for both, Chrysler states that with a certain weight of trailer, a WDH is required. I have used a WDH on several trailers and find the ride and the feeling that the TV and trailer are one unit to be great. No sway, no rocking of the trailer, and when I had a blowout on the trailer, no lack of control at Interstate speeds as I pulled to the shoulder. I know that not all agree, but I wouldn't tow without one, and would rule out the Toyota and Honda models that don't allow them.
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Old 04-30-2015, 05:48 PM   #35
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I've been towing my 17B with a RAV4 and Hidden Hitch receiver and WDH for more than six years, without any issues. I've also spent six years trying to get Toyota to explain why they "don't recommend" a WDH. Don't recommend is not the same as instructions NOT to use a WDH.
Anyway, I still don't have an answer, although they apparently are investigating my complaint that they won't answer my question. My question is why don't they recommend a WDH?
Note that right above the paragraph on hitches, there is a warning about something else in yellow.
I know I'm harping, but I'm now like a dog with a bone.
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Old 04-30-2015, 06:46 PM   #36
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You'll probably never hear anything from them except corporate speak. Since the 2008 Highlander doesn't have that warning in the manual perhaps it has to do with the wheelbase of the RAV4(104.7").

If one reads How to Tow Safely I posted previously there is mention of how using a WDH with spring bars set too tight can be more dangerous than not having them at all.

http://www.slaga.net/RV/How%20to%20Tow-version%202.pdf
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Old 04-30-2015, 06:52 PM   #37
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If one reads How to Tow Safely I posted previously ...

http://www.slaga.net/RV/How%20to%20Tow-version%202.pdf
Since the person who posted that material did not have the right to do so, the copyright owner requested that he remove the material (the whole "RV" folder). The link no longer works (at least for me).
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Old 04-30-2015, 06:55 PM   #38
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Since the 2008 Highlander doesn't have that warning in the manual perhaps it has to do with the wheelbase of the RAV4(104.7").

If one reads How to Tow Safely I posted previously there is mention of how using a WDH with spring bars set too tight can be more dangerous than not having them at all.
I don't think any vintage of Highlander has had that warning.

I think you're on to a reasonable explanation. Although short-wheelbase vehicles often need WDH more than long ones (because they suffer more from adverse load transfer in reaction to hitch weight), they are also more vulnerable to over-application of WD.
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Old 04-30-2015, 07:00 PM   #39
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Since the person who posted that material did not have the right to do so, the copyright owner requested that he remove the material. The link no longer works (at least for me).
Hadn't heard about any request to remove; was that previously mentioned here? Link still works for me.

Although somewhat dated sounding when reading- this guide is one of the most comprehensive I have seen anywhere and really gets into the safety aspect of towing.
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Old 04-30-2015, 07:13 PM   #40
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I'd be happy if they said, "we just put that there to cover our #ss".
Anyway, can't mitigate an issue if you don't know what the issue is.
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