Trailer Weights in the Real World

[Iowa Dave]

Hi Paul
My experience was that the sherline reading changes somewhat as the level of the trailer is changed. When I checked the 21 I made sure I was level on the front to back bubble. The side to side was always ok because I have a dead flat floor in the building. There are some things you can do to change tongue weight however some
Large contributors are relatively “static”
Can’t or not willing to change:
1. Mattress weight
2. Power tongue jack
3. Carrying auxillary propane tank in front box instead of in tow vehicle.
Can change to shift the balance
1. Contents of area under the bed
2. Amount of water in fresh water tank
3. Adjust heavy or excess items in front box.
4. Bicycles on rear rack or auxillary storage box on rear carrier.
5. Canned beer instead of bottled.
6. Most radical: spirits instead of beer.
I’m sure there are additional adjustments. I’m running
between 480 and 500 lbs. tongue weight on the 21.
Iowa Dave

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by EscapeBoulder

Wow... I didn't think of it and therefore didn't check to see if the trailer was lever (fore/aft) when measuring the tongue weight. As I had just released the hitch, and driven the tow vehicle off the scale, I bet I didn't lower the trailer back to level. So, my guess is the tongue weight reading is a little high.

That could do it. With a tandem-axle trailer and non-equalized trailer suspension, lifting the tongue raises the tongue weight. To get an accurate reading (meaning one that tells you what is happening while you tow), you need to put the tongue at the height it is when all hitched up, whether or not that is really level.

Originally Posted by EscapeBoulder

If I come upon another closed, but available scale, I'll give it another try. (Assuming it's not raining or snowing up here in Oregon!)

So, not soon...

[Tam2004]

Originally Posted by EscapeBoulder

We picked up our 2018 Escape 19'er last week, and stopped by a closed highway side scale today. (I was told that a little secret is that closed scales are actually active. Which I guess they are - at least in Oregon.) Anyway...

Total "rig" weight (2018 Highlander Limited + trailer): 9,700
Trailer alone: 4,400
Tongue weight: 650

Weights included 230 lbs of fresh water and 100 lbs of gasoline. And the trailer is "fully loaded" with reinforced walls, the inverter, TV, solar panel, front box, 2-6v batteries and more. We definitely didn't go "light weight" out of the factory.

Since I believe the tongue weight should be 10% to 12% of the total trailer weight, I guess I need to move some of the stuff in the front box to the back of the trailer. That's doable. And might just move us into the 10% to 12%.

We're also getting just around 15 mpg. One caveat is the I drive softly when trailering. No jack-rabbit stops or starts. Staying within or slightly below the speed limits, etc.

Thanks for this - we have a 2018 Highlander pulling our Escape 19. We averaged 14.9 mpg over more than 3 thousand miles across many mountain passes between Chilliwack, CO, NM and back to Oregon. (up to 13k feet in Rockies). We were astonished at the good mileage as we were loaded heavily and weren't trying too hard to keep the mileage down. Also - it pulled like a dream - mostly could not tell there was a trailer attached. We use the E2 by Fastway that ETI offered.

[Tam2004]

I notice someone recommended canned beer. Unfortunately, like canned soda, the epoxy lining inside the can leaks some BPA into the beverage. So use with caution as we all want many years of wonderful travel in our Escape trailers. --- BPA Research has linked even low-dose BPA exposure to cardiovascular problems, including coronary artery heart disease, angina, heart attack, hypertension, and peripheral artery disease. Findings suggest that this type of exposure could trigger arrhythmias, atherosclerosis, and blood pressure changes. And also diabetes II issues. I drink my beer from a bottle and I endorse the idea of spirits...!!!

[Bobbie54]

I finally weighed my 15A. Note- it has no sink so no tanks .And no awning. So anyone else with a 15A likely starts a little heavier.

I guesstimated slightly on tongue weight because I knew what it was for my Forester and figured in the different tanks on the tongue. I also have a single 12V battery on the tongue instead of a pair of 6V batteries.

So it came to about 2025 lbs after I subtracted some heavier, unusual items (an extra propane tank riding inside on the wheels and 4 exercise pens on the cargo rack) plus about 270 lb tongue weight. (Total weight at the scale 2395 which includes tongue weight as I'd previously weighed the truck.)

This was as packed for a 3 day trip plus stuff I usually keep in there such as emergency food, stock supplies like canned food, and about a gallon of water.

[DougG]

2010 escape 19, loaded up for a week long trip, with full water tank. 3340lbs on the axles and 410lbs on the tongue. 3750lbs total

[Vermilye]

Originally Posted by Bobbie54

I finally weighed my 15A. Note- it has no sink so no tanks .And no awning. So anyone else with a 15A likely starts a little heavier.

I guesstimated slightly on tongue weight because I knew what it was for my Forester and figured in the different tanks on the tongue. I also have a single 12V battery on the tongue instead of a pair of 6V batteries.

So it came to about 2025 lbs after I subtracted some heavier, unusual items (an extra propane tank riding inside on the wheels and 4 exercise pens on the cargo rack) plus about 270 lb tongue weight. (Total weight at the scale 2395 which includes tongue weight as I'd previously weighed the truck.)

This was as packed for a 3 day trip plus stuff I usually keep in there such as emergency food, stock supplies like canned food, and about a gallon of water.

I'll add your trailer to the Trailer Weights in the Real World spreadsheet if you make it clear which weight is correct. Is 2025 the total weight? 270 the tongue weight (resulting in 1755 axle weight?) Let me know & I'll add it.

[Vermilye]

Originally Posted by DougG

2010 escape 19, loaded up for a week long trip, with full water tank. 3340lbs on the axles and 410lbs on the tongue. 3750lbs total

I'll add your trailer at the next update.

[Bobbie54]

Originally Posted by Vermilye

I'll add your trailer to the Trailer Weights in the Real World spreadsheet if you make it clear which weight is correct. Is 2025 the total weight? 270 the tongue weight (resulting in 1755 axle weight?) Let me know & I'll add it.

I'll get the actual tongue weight tomorrow and then try to make it more clear. I had to do some adding and subtracting to get a usual weight and because the truck was loaded differently at both weighings.

[Vermilye]

I don't know if it will make a difference in any existing links to the trailer weight spreadsheet, but I upgraded it from a .xls to a .xlsx file format. 193 trailers in the spreadsheet!

http://lakeshoreimages.com/spreadsheets/Weight.xlsx

[jxoco]

Thanks for keeping this up to date Jon.

[rootedoutside]

Hi all,

I'd love your help understanding all our weights and if we're okay within limits. Here's what I just got from the CAT scales. I weighed both our truck and trailer combined and then our truck separately. We had full tank of gas, full tank of fresh water, and both propane tanks full.

MODELS
Trailer: 2020 5.0TA
Truck: 2020 F-150 SuperCab, 6ft bed

WEIGHTS
Truck and Trailer - Hitched
A. Steer Axle: 3,240 lbs
B. Drive Axle: 3,500 lbs
C. Trailer Axle: 4,360 lbs
Z. Total Axle: 11,100 lbs

Truck - Unhitched
D. Steer Axle: 3,180 lbs
E. Drive Axle: 2,580 lbs
X. Trailer Axle: 0
Y. Total Axle: 5,760 lbs

CALCULATIONS
Pin weight (B-E=K): 920 lbs
Pin weight % (K/T=P): 17.4%
Trailer weight (K+C=T): 5,280 lbs
Truck unhitched (D+E=Y): 5,760 lbs
Truck hitched (Y+K): 6,680 lbs

Weight of passengers: 336 lbs

LIMITS
5.0TA
GVWR: 5,500 lbs
GAWR (3,500 lbs x 2): 7,000 lbs
Max tire load (I need help understanding this limit, do I use the single or dual limit? And multiple by 4 tires because of tandem axles?) One single tire reads:
Max load single: 2,150 lbs
Max load dual: 1,870 lbs

F-150
Front GAWR: 3,450 lbs
Rear GAWR: 3,800 lbs
GVWR: 7,050 lbs
Cargo capacity: 2,111 lbs
GCWR: 16,000 lbs

OPEN QUESTIONS/CONCERNS
From my understanding (please correct me if I'm mistaken), we're within all our limits and safe. I guess my biggest questions are:

• is it okay if we're over our trailer GVWR when not hitched, i.e., added weight of passengers hanging out/sleeping in trailer? We'd be at 5,616 lbs.
• our pin weight % is 17.4%, is this okay? Maybe shift some of our trailer cargo to the bed area when we travel to increase %?

Thanks for the extra set of eyes on this, super appreciative!! I think we're good, but I'd love confirmation and/or tips on how to adjust.

[Centex]

rootedoutside, I believe that your pin weight should be calculated as follows, in recognition that some of the pin-weight is borne by the front axle of your truck (a good thing):

[(A+B)-Y] = [(3240+3500)-5760] = 980 PW (pin-weight)

Then, the total Trailer Weight is C+PW = 4360+980 = 5340 Total Trailer Weight

Then, the PW as a % of Total Trailer Weight is 18.4%

"small" differences, but just to get the calculation 'proper'

BTW, the tire sidewall notation for "Max load dual" is a reference to running 2-tires side-by-side on each end of an axle (as on a 'Dually' truck). That does not apply to your 5.0TA which is running single tires on each end of "tandem" axles. Insofar as the trailer tires you have a rated total max capacity of 4x2150 = 8600#.

Just curious - you're explicit about the tanks .... are these weights with your trailer 'loaded as for typical travel' insofar as all the other things that go with camping (clothing, kitchen gear, food, etc, etc)?

Thanks for sharing your data, very interesting!

[padlin]

The pin weight is surprising to me, I thought mine was heavy at 750 in the middle of a trip.

I wouldn't worry about being 100 lbs over on the gvwr, reminds me of my old conventional camper where dry weight was only 300 lbs under gvwr so I was always over.

[Pembyescape]

I just noticed your Truck weight is 5,760LBs and your GVWR is 7,050LBS. Payload is closer to 1300lbs. I’d like to see a light duty truck up around 2,000lbs - would solve a lot of issues. As it is most half tons are right around 1400lbs when you extra doors and 4x4

[padlin]

You'd be wrong. My F150 has 4 doors, is 4x4, and has a payload of 2200. And yes, I;ve checked it at a CAT scale.

[Pembyescape]

Ah yes. Ford does do a good job with their f150 and payload. Wish Toyota would follow suit!

[Brian B-P]

rootedoutside: The error which Centex explained in the assumption that pin weight is carried only by the rear axle is why the actual measurement of hitched truck loads (A+B = 6,740 lbs) doesn't match the calculation of unhitched axle loads plus pin weight.

Originally Posted by rootedoutside

• our pin weight % is 17.4%, is this okay? Maybe shift some of our trailer cargo to the bed area when we travel to increase %?

Anything in the range of this and the correct value of 18.4% is fine as it is; it is a little higher than average for the 5.0TA both empty as as owners tow them. It is certainly not too low, and it would be undesirable to shift cargo to the bed area, because that would mean raising that cargo mass (from wherever it is to the elevated bed loft) which is bad for stability.

Also, you are running out of carrying capacity in the truck (a few hundred pounds of stuff packed in the truck for a trip would put you over GVWR), so increasing pin weight further would be undesirable.

[Chotch]

Originally Posted by Pembyescape

I just noticed your Truck weight is 5,760LBs and your GVWR is 7,050LBS. Payload is closer to 1300lbs. I’d like to see a light duty truck up around 2,000lbs - would solve a lot of issues. As it is most half tons are right around 1400lbs when you extra doors and 4x4

You can get an F150 with over 2000 lbs payload. My F150 4x4 has a 1660 payload and it’s on the lower end of the spectrum. Been towing my 5.0 TA easily for 3 years now. You can get a Silverado with payload up to 2280. And checking out the new Ranger you can get up to 1860. A new Ram can be had with a 1900 payload. Maybe you’re just shopping the wrong brand😁

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Chotch

Maybe you’re just shopping the wrong brand��

Other possibilities include shopping for trucks without considering payload, and shopping among trucks on dealer's lots (which are configured to attract buyers with visible features, a nice ride on the test drive around the block around the dealership, and high dealership profit) instead of among everything that the manufacturer offers.

But this is all way off of the thread topic.