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Old 01-30-2019, 11:16 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeanman View Post
Hi, I have a KIA Sorento V6 AWD, with a factory class III hitch installed by the dealer. The controler is basic Tekonsha, E2 hitch installed by ETI at orientation picking our 21´. Since may 2018, I crossed Canada twice and now, we are on Mexico Pacific Coast . I am totally satisfied with the combination.
Thank you! So glad to hear the combination will work
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Old 01-30-2019, 02:12 PM   #42
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I don't see any mentions or consideration of HITCH WEIGHT ?
I've learned the hard way that even though my vehicle pulled the trailer with ease, i eventually did damage. It is my opinion that regardless of the vehicle's ratings and weight distributing hitches, independant rear suspension is questionable with high (+400lb) hitch weights.
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Old 01-30-2019, 02:39 PM   #43
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Trailer and tong weight are within car capacity and good judgement for loading the car, everything is fine
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Old 01-30-2019, 02:53 PM   #44
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Unfortunately, published tongue/hitch weights are for absolutely empty trailers, not including propane or batteries. (and perhaps questionably accurate to start with)
The 256lbs for my new 19' was closer to 450lb loaded. (not excessively loaded)

And your vehicles hitch weight rating is for when your vehicle is empty of other payload.

I'm not trying to be negative or tell anyone what to do.
Only stating my belief that Tongue/hitch weight is often overlooked as we simply concentrate on max tow weights. And that over or max loading independant rear suspension can get expensive.
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Old 01-30-2019, 03:14 PM   #45
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I'm not trying to be negative or tell anyone what to do.
Only stating my belief that Tongue/hitch weight is often overlooked as we simply concentrate on max tow weights. And that over or max loading independant rear suspension can get expensive.

If you go back through previous towing discussions ( ten years worth ), you will find that tongue weight is often discussed.
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Old 01-30-2019, 03:17 PM   #46
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Is this not a current discussion?
Shall we tell the OP to go dig through all previous discussions, as it's all been covered before?
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Old 01-30-2019, 04:21 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by Jeanman View Post
Hi, I have a KIA Sorento V6 AWD, with a factory class III hitch installed by the dealer. The controler is basic Tekonsha, E2 hitch installed by ETI at orientation picking our 21´. Since may 2018, I crossed Canada twice and now, we are on Mexico Pacific Coast . I am totally satisfied with the combination.
Excellent, Jeanman!
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Old 01-30-2019, 04:24 PM   #48
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Is this not a current discussion?
Shall we tell the OP to go dig through all previous discussions, as it's all been covered before?

You said tongue weight is often overlooked in discussions. I'm saying it is often a topic. Nothing more.
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Old 01-30-2019, 04:36 PM   #49
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I don't see any mentions or consideration of HITCH WEIGHT ?
I've learned the hard way that even though my vehicle pulled the trailer with ease, i eventually did damage. It is my opinion that regardless of the vehicle's ratings and weight distributing hitches, independant rear suspension is questionable with high (+400lb) hitch weights.
Could you describe what damage was done? What was that vehicle and what do you now use?
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Old 01-30-2019, 06:02 PM   #50
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It is my opinion that regardless of the vehicle's ratings and weight distributing hitches, independant rear suspension is questionable with high (+400lb) hitch weights.
There are independent suspensions which can handle over ten tons. Remember the Hummer H1, or the original military version, the HMMWV or HummVee? That has independent rear suspension... and it's not some fragile car. Being independent or not is irrelevant to load handling capacity.

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And your vehicles hitch weight rating is for when your vehicle is empty of other payload.
No, the hitch weight rating is the limit for the weight on the hitch. The combination of high hitch weight and high cargo weight in the back of the vehicle may lead to the rear axle being overloaded, but that's the GAWR, not the hitch weight rating.

My Toyota Sienna, for instance, can carry the full rated hitch weight (350 pounds in weight-carrying mode) plus half a ton of passenger and cargo, and still be within all vehicle limits (including GVWR, GCWR, and both GAWRs).

If you overloaded the rear axle, that's not an issue with the hitch weight limit or the fault of an independent rear suspension design.
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Old 01-30-2019, 07:19 PM   #51
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Could you describe what damage was done? What was that vehicle and what do you now use?
Ridgeline.
I never exceeded limits, but was often near maximum on many very long trips. I did use a weight distributing hitch assembly.

In most IRS designs, as heavy load compresses rear suspension, driveline components begin working at angles approaching or exceeding their optimal design range. It is my and my mechanics opinion that prolonged towing with near max tongue weight was cause of continual rear driveline issues.
I loved the Ridgeline, but now tow with a Tundra.
I was only suggesting the OP also be mindful of tongue/hitch weight.

I'll give no further opinions or experiences. I've attempted, but been unable to delete my posts. My apologies to those that seem to view my posts as an intrusion to their conversation. It won't happen again.
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Old 01-30-2019, 08:35 PM   #52
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In most IRS designs, as heavy load compresses rear suspension, driveline components begin working at angles approaching or exceeding their optimal design range. It is my and my mechanics opinion that prolonged towing with near max tongue weight contributed to one failed differential and problems with the second.
Thanks for the details.
If the suspension ride height was low enough to cause angle problems with the CV joints in the axle shafts, the axle load was probably over GAWR; this does reinforce the importance of paying attention to loading. Even that shouldn't affect the differential, so I don't think your mechanic explained the situation very well.

The majority of Escape trailers, other than the fifth-wheels, are towed with SUVs. The majority of those SUVs have independent rear suspension and AWD... including Ridgelines and mechanically similar Pilots. Mechanical problems are rare.
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Old 01-30-2019, 11:03 PM   #53
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Ridgeline.
I never exceeded limits, but was often near maximum on many very long trips. I did use a weight distributing hitch assembly.

In most IRS designs, as heavy load compresses rear suspension, driveline components begin working at angles approaching or exceeding their optimal design range. It is my and my mechanics opinion that prolonged towing with near max tongue weight was cause of continual rear driveline issues.
I loved the Ridgeline, but now tow with a Tundra.
I was only suggesting the OP also be mindful of tongue/hitch weight.

I'll give no further opinions or experiences. I've attempted, but been unable to delete my posts. My apologies to those that seem to view my posts as an intrusion to their conversation. It won't happen again.
Please, don't go. Your points are a valid contribution. It is hard sometimes to convey in a chat forum tone and inflections so misunderstandings can happen. But that does not mean you are not welcome.

I have always wondered about the Ridgeline with its unibody construction vs body on frame. I have towed with Tundra's for years and they are one tough truck, but they do not have the best ride. The Ridgeline with the independent suspension would give a nicer ride when not towing. It is nice to hear about first person real world towing experience with both platforms.
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Old 01-31-2019, 01:17 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ytrv View Post
Ridgeline.
I never exceeded limits, but was often near maximum on many very long trips. I did use a weight distributing hitch assembly.

In most IRS designs, as heavy load compresses rear suspension, driveline components begin working at angles approaching or exceeding their optimal design range. It is my and my mechanics opinion that prolonged towing with near max tongue weight was cause of continual rear driveline issues.
I loved the Ridgeline, but now tow with a Tundra.
I was only suggesting the OP also be mindful of tongue/hitch weight.

I'll give no further opinions or experiences. I've attempted, but been unable to delete my posts. My apologies to those that seem to view my posts as an intrusion to their conversation. It won't happen again.
Don’t be so hard on yourself, I’m with Arnie on this. Hitch weight is relevant. Your comments about how hard you work your tow vehicle is also relevant. Yes sure the lighter vehicles may be able to carry weights up to a certain amount and they are designed to carry whatever rating is all well and good. But the reality is that if you are operating a mechanical device at its highest capacity all the time, much more wear and tear will result than on a vehicle that is only operating at 50% of capacity.

Towing a 21 with a Ridgeline is doable, but it will feel strained, especially on long hills. Now a Tundra though a work horse of a vehicle and will have no issues with any Escape Model.
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Old 01-31-2019, 11:36 AM   #55
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What you need to check is that the hitch receiver that KIA installed is "for weight distribution hitch". Toyota, for instance installs a 2" Class II, which isn't suitable for WDH. That's why I had an aftermarket install. You need Class III for WDH.
As for terms, the part bolted to the vehicle is the hitch receiver. The WDH is the hitch ( with the ball ).
Which Toyota are you referencing? My 4Runner has a Class 111 hitch.
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Old 01-31-2019, 11:44 AM   #56
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Which Toyota are you referencing? My 4Runner has a Class 111 hitch.

Mine. A 2008 RAV4 Sport V6 with tow prep package. Hitch receiver and wiring were not included. They were installed by an after-market installer, at the Toyota dealership, prior to picking up my brand new vehicle.

You should check that your hitch receiver is 'Class 3 for WDH'. I understand that you can get a Class 3 that isn't suitable for WDH.
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Old 01-31-2019, 12:45 PM   #57
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Mine. A 2008 RAV4 Sport V6 with tow prep package. Hitch receiver and wiring were not included. They were installed by an after-market installer, at the Toyota dealership, prior to picking up my brand new vehicle.

You should check that your hitch receiver is 'Class 3 for WDH'. I understand that you can get a Class 3 that isn't suitable for WDH.
I posed that question whether or not my hitch receiver is 'Class 3 for WDH' by calling Reese Hitches. I'm not convince they even understood what I was asking about.
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Old 01-31-2019, 12:58 PM   #58
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A reminder...

Hitch classes (defined by VESC V-5 and SAE J684 standards) describe only the maximum trailer weight rating (and other strength testing factors):
  • Class 1: up to 2,000 pounds
  • Class 2: up to 3,500 pounds
  • Class 3: up to 5,000 pounds
  • Class 4: up to 10,000 pounds

Receiver hitches have a size, which is the size of the square opening where the ball mount (or WD hitch shank) is inserted. There are typical sizes, but they are not part of the hitch class standards:
  • 1.25": typical for Class 1 and Class 2
  • 2": typical for Class 3 and Class 4, but sometimes used for Class 2
  • 2.5": often used for Class 4, including hitches rated beyond 10,000 pounds (which are still Class 4)
  • 3": sometimes used for Class 4, especially hitches rated beyond 10,000 pounds (which are still Class 4)

Regardless of weight rating, class, or receiver size, a hitch can be rated for only weight-carrying (no WD), or for weight-distribution (WD allowed, and might be required for maximum capacity). The class standards say nothing about WD. Common practices:
  • no WD equipment is available for receivers smaller than 2"
  • 1.25" receivers are not rated for WD
  • Class 2 receivers are typically not rated for WD (even if 2")
  • most 2" receivers are rated for WD
  • almost all Class 3 and Class 4 hitches are rated for WD

So it can be complicated, but there are some really common practices, which mean that usually a Class 3 hitch will have a 2" receiver socket and will be rated for WD. All current Escape models (except the 5.0TA of course) require a Class 3 hitch if the trailer is to be loaded to its maximum capacity (GVWR).
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Old 01-31-2019, 01:08 PM   #59
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I notice some 2" hitches have an extra metal band around the outside perimeter, I wonder if this determines the w/d option? All class III hitches are frame mounted whereas I and II can be bumper mounted.
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Old 01-31-2019, 01:11 PM   #60
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Your really not saying anything which from a general view of my reading on the topic I don't already know. It is really not as complicated as you suggest. It's clear to me as you wrote that: "almost all Class 3 and Class 4 hitches are rated for WD". I think I'll sleep well tonight.
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