what gas engine? 2020 F350: 6.2 Gas or 7.3 L Gas? - Escape Trailer Owners Community

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Old 02-09-2019, 02:10 AM   #1
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Question what gas engine? 2020 F350: 6.2 Gas or 7.3 L Gas?

what gas engine? 2020 F350: 6.2 Gas or 7.3 L Gas?

Hi all

Lots of smart people here.... thus this question here.

Any guesses as to the increase in price from the 6.2 L gasser to the 7.3 L gasser?

Our plan is to custom order a gasser 2020 F350 with just the options we want, and none that we don’t…. and put a 9.5’ Hallmark pop up truck camper on it full time. No, we will almost never tow anything. We hate towing.

I am told that our Hallmark pop up truck camper, “wet” could be about 3,000 lbs, or maybe a little less (approximately) so I’ll have the F350 built with a lot of carrying capacity.

If it was you (and you didn’t want diesel) what engine would you buy? the 6.2 L gasser or the 7.3 L gasser?

Diesel doesn’t make sense for us, as it adds a ton to the cost, plus weights a *lot* more than the gas engine, so it effectively reduces our max payload.
We also like to go far, far off the beaten path, and those places often don’t have diesel to sell. We dont want to worry about range ever.

Plus we would never drive enough to make up the difference in cost via higher efficiency.

So the question comes down to: do we get the tried and true 6.2-liter gas V8, probably around 385 horsepower and 430 pound-feet of torque (current specs)
or do we spend the extra $ to get the new 7.3-liter pushrod V8.

One unknown variable… the new 10 speed transmission sounds nice… that would be nice to have. I wonder if the 6.2L gasser would even be available with the new 10 speed transmission….. Hmmm…

Thanks…. here is a copy paste of some info, from the internet:

and I quote: …”The base (Super Duty) option is a carryover 6.2-liter gasoline V8, which will likely have output ratings similar to the current model's 385 horsepower and 430 pound-feet of torque.

Next up is an all-new 7.3-liter pushrod V8, claimed to be the most powerful gas engine in Super Duty history.

Finally, there's a new, third-generation 6.7-liter Power Stroke turbodiesel V8. It has a new turbo, new internals and a new 36,000-psi fueling system to deliver power; the outgoing engine was rated for 450 hp and 935 lb-ft.

Those engines now mate to a new 10-speed automatic transmission, which weighs just 3.5 pounds more than and fits into the same physical space as the outgoing six-speed. (The base 6.2-liter engine will still be offered with the six-speed on low-cost trims.)

Ford promises improved efficiency from the new transmission. In addition to the expected Tow/Haul, the 10-speed adds extra driving modes: Slippery, Deep Sand and Snow, and Eco, the last of which feels like a token effort in a heavy-duty pickup truck.”

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Old 02-09-2019, 02:52 PM   #2
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Not an expert here but I drive a 2010 F 150 with the 5.4L and 6 speed tranny. The transmission has always beed "clunky" with very hard downshifts on occasion but not always. I've always worried that I would leave the transmission all over the road sometime but it hasn't happened yet and I have 137,000 miles on it now. Everything I read and hear about the 10 speed is that it is great. Yours would be a newer heaver duty design of the existing 10 speed so it isn't a complete new design. I would go for whichever engine that comes with the 10 speed.
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Old 02-09-2019, 03:44 PM   #3
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It's hard to imagine that an F-350 which is not towing can need anything more than the current 6.2L. On the other hand, the new 7.3 L might deliver better fuel economy due to more advanced design - it's impossible to tell at this point, with so little information released. There is always the concern with buying the first year of any vehicle, engine, or transmission, as it may not have the bugs worked out.

It makes little sense to keep multiple redundant transmissions in production, so Ford will probably use the new 10R140 higher-capacity 10-speed in all vehicles currently using the 6R140 within a few years... but the transition never happens in a single year, so I'm not surprised that the 6.2 L will still come with the 6R140 in 2020 in at least some cases. So...
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I would go for whichever engine that comes with the 10 speed.
I agree. But then I'm biased against obsolete transmissions by being stuck with a 4R100 in my motorhome, which is aggravating. If it were economically feasible (I'm sure it's not), and I were driving it more, I would swap in the 6R140 which is now used in the same chassis with the same engine.

The question might be how much it costs to move up to the trim level that lets you buy the 10-speed with the 6.2L, and whether it would make more sense to just buy the 7.3L and get the 10-speed that comes with it.
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Old 02-09-2019, 04:21 PM   #4
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Be certain to get the DRW model and not the SRW. It will be a lot more stable with the very heavy load you will be carrying; especially in cross winds.
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Old 02-09-2019, 07:36 PM   #5
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Be certain to get the DRW model and not the SRW. It will be a lot more stable with the very heavy load you will be carrying; especially in cross winds.
except we want to go on FSR and over rocks (slowly) and DRW is very bad for that....

so SRW i think.

10 ply E rated. many folks are doing these with Pop Up Trailers... they love the setup. very stable.

thx
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Old 02-09-2019, 10:21 PM   #6
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Hey John- I would have hated towing a Gen2 21 with an Acura MDX too. Maybe if you tried an F150 ecoboost you might like it and save a bunch of $$$.
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Old 02-09-2019, 10:26 PM   #7
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Hey John- I would have hated towing a Gen2 21 with an Acura MDX too. Maybe if you tried an F150 ecoboost you might like it and save a bunch of $$$.
The thought did cross my mind a few times... however having rented a 24' Sprinter van conversion, and a 22' Transit camper....

plus i dont like towing by myself - as I have the opportunity to camp sometimes alone...

i just dont like towing, period. I like being one vehicle

i know that sounds crazy on an Escape forum... to a bunch of people who all tow....



and we love our palatial Escape 21....

but i think a self contained (much more cramped, granted) Ford F350 - 4x4 - with 9.5' Hallmark Pop Up will suit us better.

J
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Old 02-09-2019, 11:10 PM   #8
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SRW and DRW, and stability

Dual-rear-wheel trucks look like they should be much more stable, but lateral stability is determined approximately by the track width between tire centres, which isn't as much more on a DRW than an SRW as it looks (because the DRW tire combination is so wide with the space between the tires). The DRW does have 7.5" wider track, but the difference in overall truck width is much more than that. The best arrangement for stability would be a wide-track SRW, but although that's available in Europe on some chassis-cabs, it's not available here in anything from the factory, and specifically not in pickup trucks.

A DRW F-350 is about 400 pounds heavier than an equivalent SRW F-350.

If you really want lateral stability you can get an F-450 (which has a 5.7" wider-track front axle), but that's a DRW-only model, among other issues.

If the 7.5" wider track on the DRW models is simply due to a rear axle housing that much wider (with the same bearing assemblies bolted to it, but with hubs having different flange offsets to suit the wheel offset), it would theoretically be possible to swap a DRW axle housing and axle shafts into an SRW truck (using SRW rear hubs to get the right offset and bolt pattern) and use fender flares to cover the tires, obtaining the wider track without as much width as the DRW, and without the dually tire problems off-road. The SRW and DRW axles would need to be the same model (Ford uses Sterling 10.5" in some SuperDuty pickup configurations, and Dana in others). Of course, this would need to be confirmed, and most people wouldn't want to do this on a new truck; they would just run outset rear wheels (which is bad for the bearings).
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Old 02-09-2019, 11:16 PM   #9
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Tires

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Originally Posted by Losangeles View Post
10 ply E rated
Well, Load Range E and 10-ply "rating"... which mean the same thing. Since that means 80 PSI maximum inflation - which can be brutal for ride comfort and bad for traction (especially off-highway) - and they need it to match the GAWR, I hope you won't need the full GAWR so they don't need maximum inflation.
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Old 02-10-2019, 11:56 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian B-P View Post
It's hard to imagine that an F-350 which is not towing can need anything more than the current 6.2L. On the other hand, the new 7.3 L might deliver better fuel economy due to more advanced design - it's impossible to tell at this point, with so little information released. There is always the concern with buying the first year of any vehicle, engine, or transmission, as it may not have the bugs worked out.
i second that, I was a Ford mechanic for eighteen years and it sometimes took several years to get the bugs out.

I can’t imagine you needing more than a properly equipped F 350 SRW for a pop up camper. You said it could weigh up tp 3,000 lbs. wet. Well, a lot of campers hauled on 350’s weigh that much dry. I think the inconvenience of DRW loading, parking, and general maneuvering would only be worth it if you were hauling a tank of a camper. Weighing 4,000 lbs. in fact look at the Lance camper website and you can punch in different trucks and see what weight campers they suggest.
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Old 02-10-2019, 11:53 PM   #11
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i second that, I was a Ford mechanic for eighteen years and it sometimes took several years to get the bugs out.

I can’t imagine you needing more than a properly equipped F 350 SRW for a pop up camper. You said it could weigh up tp 3,000 lbs. wet. Well, a lot of campers hauled on 350’s weigh that much dry. I think the inconvenience of DRW loading, parking, and general maneuvering would only be worth it if you were hauling a tank of a camper. Weighing 4,000 lbs. in fact look at the Lance camper website and you can punch in different trucks and see what weight campers they suggest.
My very experienced and honest mechanic has always encouraged me to NEVER buy the first year (or even 2 years!) of a new model (redesign) or engine, for exactly the reasons you list above. Thanks for the reminder.

I have posted my question on quite a few forums, and the overwhelming majority of people all said basically the same thing.... buy the tried and true 6.2 (gas) if I am going to buy a gasser. (we are) and the tried and true 6 speed transmission.... especially if it is a purchase and we plan on keeping it a long time (we do)

Also many people have mentioned that the 6.2 L gasser will have plenty of grunt for our needs. Good to know.

We will not do tons of miles annually (not full timing) so fuel economy isn't a huge factor, either way.

thanks everyone for the great thoughts.

J
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Old 02-11-2019, 12:21 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Losangeles View Post
I have posted my question on quite a few forums, and the overwhelming majority of people all said basically the same thing.... buy the tried and true 6.2 (gas) if I am going to buy a gasser. (we are) and the tried and true 6 speed transmission.... especially if it is a purchase and we plan on keeping it a long time (we do)J
I don't completely agree with the old-transmission logic: the new one isn't really first-year since it's just a stronger version of the current (proven for three years before you would buy one) 10-speed, and since the 6-speed is already obsolete (GM and Ram have used 8-speeds in their pickups since 2014 and 2013) it's going to seem really obsolete when the truck is a few years old. I suppose they're both sound choices, for different reasons.

At least you don't have to decide on manual versus automatic... since that choice isn't offered any more!
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Old 02-11-2019, 12:31 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by Brian B-P View Post
I don't completely agree with the old-transmission logic: the new one isn't really first-year since it's just a stronger version of the current (proven for three years before you would buy one) 10-speed, and since the 6-speed is already obsolete (GM and Ram have used 8-speeds in their pickups since 2014 and 2013) it's going to seem really obsolete when the truck is a few years old. I suppose they're both sound choices, for different reasons.

At least you don't have to decide on manual versus automatic... since that choice isn't offered any more!
Ford is calling the 10 speed transmission "all new" and from what info I have seen on the internet... it really is 'all new'.

the quote is here:

https://autoweek.com/article/trucks/...er-73-liter-v8



and not sure how a transmission is 'obsolete' if they are still making and selling it.
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Old 02-11-2019, 01:12 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Brian B-P View Post
Well, Load Range E and 10-ply "rating"... which mean the same thing. Since that means 80 PSI maximum inflation - which can be brutal for ride comfort and bad for traction (especially off-highway) - and they need it to match the GAWR, I hope you won't need the full GAWR so they don't need maximum inflation.
Thanks for the thoughts... appreciated.

The good news is.... as per the info listed here:
https://www.ford.com/trucks/super-duty/models/f350-xlt/

it indicates we wont be anywhere near the GAWR.

and I quote -

Maximum Payload Package Selector (lbs.) F-350 SRW 4X4 - - the most possible payload is 4,450 lbs with total of 11,500 GVWR (lbs) …. under build to order (we would do this)

yes I know that payload includes gas (about 300 lbs for a full 48 gallon tank, on the biggest F350 we'd get) other fluids, passengers, snacks, etc etc)

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Old 02-11-2019, 02:49 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Losangeles View Post
Ford is calling the 10 speed transmission "all new" and from what info I have seen on the internet... it really is 'all new'.

the quote is here:

https://autoweek.com/article/trucks/...er-73-liter-v8)
"All new" is an automotive marketing phrase which now means "looks different enough that many people won't recognize that it's almost entirely the same as last year".

That's a quote from a Ford rep, pushing their product, not an informed comment about the actual design. Since the higher-capacity version will have many different parts (possibly longer case of the same design, wider gears in exactly the same configuration, clutches and brakes with more plates but otherwise identical, etc) they can get away with the "all new" phrase.

The 10R140 is being built by the same people and with the same equipment as the 10R80 (as announced by Ford). Logically, no manufacturer would start again on a fresh design for another transmission of the same type (planetary geared automatic with torque converter), with the same number of ratios, to be built at the same time, and built in the same factory, as an existing transmission.

By the way, it looks like GM will be building the same transmission (in their own factory), branding it "Allison" for marketing, and putting it in the 2020 Silverado 2500/3500 HD.

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Originally Posted by Losangeles View Post
... and not sure how a transmission is 'obsolete' if they are still making and selling it.
Well, not exactly obsolete, but a generation or two behind industry practice. It will still be functional and well-supported, of course.
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Old 02-11-2019, 03:04 PM   #16
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The person I quoted on the web link is not simply a "rep" - it is "Mike Pruitt, chief engineer of the Ford Super Duty lineup."

I think an engineer would not like being called a "rep" and I would hope he would be somewhat informed, as an engineer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian B-P View Post
"All new" is an automotive marketing phrase which now means "looks different enough that many people won't recognize that it's almost entirely the same as last year".

That's a quote from a Ford rep, pushing their product, not an informed comment about the actual design. Since the higher-capacity version will have many different parts (possibly longer case of the same design, wider gears in exactly the same configuration, clutches and brakes with more plates but otherwise identical, etc) they can get away with the "all new" phrase.

The 10R140 is being built by the same people and with the same equipment as the 10R80 (as announced by Ford). Logically, no manufacturer would start again on a fresh design for another transmission of the same type (planetary geared automatic with torque converter), with the same number of ratios, to be built at the same time, and built in the same factory, as an existing transmission.

By the way, it looks like GM will be building the same transmission (in their own factory), branding it "Allison" for marketing, and putting it in the 2020 Silverado 2500/3500 HD.


Well, not exactly obsolete, but a generation or two behind industry practice. It will still be functional and well-supported, of course.
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Old 02-11-2019, 04:14 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Losangeles View Post
The person I quoted on the web link is not simply a "rep" - it is "Mike Pruitt, chief engineer of the Ford Super Duty lineup."

I think an engineer would not like being called a "rep" and I would hope he would be somewhat informed, as an engineer.
I didn't say "sales rep"; I just meant that he was representing Ford (as is everyone from a customer service person on the phone to the CEO in an interview), and thus using the approved corporate terminology. I'm sure that he understands the design well, approved the use of this transmission (which comes from another Ford division), knows lots about the production of the component (cost, production capacity, inter-dependence with other component production, installation requirements...) and so is well aware that this transmission is no more "all new" than the rest of the truck.

But who knows - maybe it is all-new... there's no rule that says that manufacturers must only make rational decisions.
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Old 02-11-2019, 04:23 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Brian B-P View Post
I didn't say "sales rep"; I just meant that he was representing Ford (as is everyone from a customer service person on the phone to the CEO in an interview), and thus using the approved corporate terminology. I'm sure that he understands the design well, approved the use of this transmission (which comes from another Ford division), knows lots about the production of the component (cost, production capacity, inter-dependence with other component production, installation requirements...) and so is well aware that this transmission is no more "all new" than the rest of the truck.
I never said you said "sales rep" Brian, if you want to get pedantic.

I just quoted you. "rep" ie representative.

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Old 02-11-2019, 05:09 PM   #19
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Now for the person in charge of Ford's 10-speed transmissions (as reported in 2020 Ford Super Duty debuts all-new 7.3-liter pushrod V8, 10-speed automatic from SAE):
Quote:
A new 10R140 TorqShift 10-speed automatic replaces the Super Duty’s six-speed automatic transmission, and can be paired with all three engine offerings. Packaged in the same space as the 6-speed, the 10-speed weighs only 3.5 lb (1.6 kg) more. Next-generation software and controls are similar to those in light-duty F-150’s 10R80 transmission. “With the new controls, the shifting is faster, more accurate, and smoother,” said Greg Stout, the automaker’s 10-speed transmission systems manager.

The 10-speed transmission was custom-designed to match the Super Duty engines. “It shares the same basic architecture of the F-150’s 10-speed transmission, so it has the same number and arrangement of clutches and planetary sets,” said Stout. All the 10R140’s drive hardware is beefier than in the 10R80, with the two transmissions sharing only 7% of components. “And that 7% represents mostly small fasteners, springs, valves, and other parts inside the hydraulic control that are independent of the load the transmission carries,” Stout said.
So... same design, stronger components, as expected. Of course, with so many new components, they might undersize or otherwise mess some of them up, so there is still a new-product risk.

Manufacturers get a lot of flak from the public for doing what some people think are incompetent things. I think that when design and production decisions are examined in more detail, they make a lot of sense and reflect an astounding amount of expertise and effort.
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Old 02-12-2019, 01:49 AM   #20
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those ford 10 speeds sure look interesting. they /only/ use the torque converter to start from a stop, then they lock up, and stay locked up through all 10 closely spaced gears. the top three gears are overdrive ratios (>1.0). the overall gear range from 1 to 10 is no wider than 4-speeds were 15 years ago. let off on the throttle down a grade, and they downshift to provide engine braking. apply the brake, they downshift more.
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