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07-14-2014, 10:46 AM
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#21
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Commercial Member
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Hillsboro, Oregon
Trailer: 2014 Escape 21 - "Felicity"
Posts: 2,945
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This truck has almost 1000 ft pounds of torque; definitely will pull a 19....
__________________
Charlie Y
Need custom storage to your design? Don't drill holes!
www.RVWidgetWorks.com
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07-23-2014, 03:49 PM
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#22
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Portland, Oregon
Trailer: 2002 Escape 13'
Posts: 967
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Honda Pilot hitch receiver problem
I posted in this thread on towing a 19' because I just had a problem towing my 19' and it is related to my tow vehicle.
Well, I've been successfully pulling my 19' with my 2010 Honda Pilot 4WD for almost 2 years with an EqualIzer WDH and noticed a problem two days ago when hauling the trailer up to a 7,000ft campground in the Sierra Mountains in California. I was driving after dark and oncoming drivers were giving me their high lights constantly. At a gas stop I noticed that the Pilot front end was high and the back was low as if the WDH was not there. I took a closer look after setting up camp the next morning. The Pilot hitch receiver is bending upward which makes the WDH not work correctly. I looked under the Pilot at the receiver tube mounting and was surprised at how lightweight the whole assembly is. The entire mounting is constructed of formed sheet metal. It looks like the sheet metal form the receiver tube is welded to is bending upward. With my tongue weight at the top end of the Honda Pilot spec and the WDH forces the towing receiver just couldn't take it and bent. I also did not hit a big bump or rut on this trip so I suspect the problem has been gradual. I also checked all the welds and they are good. There is no immediate safety issue but it is obvious that this setup needs to be changed. I now know why the Pilot manual recommends no WDH. The towing assembly on the Honda Pilot is not designed to be strong enough for a WDH. Other Pilot owners should be aware.
When I get back I am going to pull the WDH off, lighten the tongue weight by reorganizing the trailer load and then I'm thinking about adding air bags inside my coil springs to level the truck when the trailer is attached. As long as I pull some weight off the trailer tongue I should be fine. I know some of you have installed air springs in your suspensions and would welcome your thoughts/advice...
Steve
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07-23-2014, 04:03 PM
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#23
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Site Team
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Canyon Lake, Texas
Trailer: 2015 19 "Past Tents", 2021 F150 Lariat 2.7L EB
Posts: 10,222
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hotfishtacos
I posted in this thread on towing a 19' because I just had a problem towing my 19' and it is related to my tow vehicle.
Well, I've been successfully pulling my 19' with my 2010 Honda Pilot 4WD for almost 2 years with an EqualIzer WDH and noticed a problem two days ago when hauling the trailer up to a 7,000ft campground in the Sierra Mountains in California. I was driving after dark and oncoming drivers were giving me their high lights constantly. At a gas stop I noticed that the Pilot front end was high and the back was low as if the WDH was not there. I took a closer look after setting up camp the next morning. The Pilot hitch receiver is bending upward which makes the WDH not work correctly. I looked under the Pilot at the receiver tube mounting and was surprised at how lightweight the whole assembly is. The entire mounting is constructed of formed sheet metal. It looks like the sheet metal form the receiver tube is welded to is bending upward. With my tongue weight at the top end of the Honda Pilot spec and the WDH forces the towing receiver just couldn't take it and bent. I also did not hit a big bump or rut on this trip so I suspect the problem has been gradual. I also checked all the welds and they are good. There is no immediate safety issue but it is obvious that this setup needs to be changed. I now know why the Pilot manual recommends no WDH. The towing assembly on the Honda Pilot is not designed to be strong enough for a WDH. Other Pilot owners should be aware.
When I get back I am going to pull the WDH off, lighten the tongue weight by reorganizing the trailer load and then I'm thinking about adding air bags inside my coil springs to level the truck when the trailer is attached. As long as I pull some weight off the trailer tongue I should be fine. I know some of you have installed air springs in your suspensions and would welcome your thoughts/advice...
Steve
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I installed the airbags in the rear coil springs with a remote to the inside of the vehicle so I can adjust their inflation. Worked well when I hauled heavy items in the back hatch but I have not towed with the setup yet.
As for the hitch issues, was this the factory hitch? If so, sounds like Honda factory hitches aren't up to the task. I've never heard of a curt or hidden hitch being bent by a wdh.
__________________
"You can't buy happiness, but you can buy an RV. And that is pretty close."
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07-23-2014, 04:11 PM
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#24
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Portland, Oregon
Trailer: 2002 Escape 13'
Posts: 967
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rbryan4
I installed the airbags in the rear coil springs with a remote to the inside of the vehicle so I can adjust their inflation. Worked well when I hauled heavy items in the back hatch but I have not towed with the setup yet.
As for the hitch issues, was this the factory hitch? If so, sounds like Honda factory hitches aren't up to the task. I've never heard of a curt or hidden hitch being bent by a wdh.
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Yes this is the factory hitch and since it's welded in you can't put an aftermarket one in. What vehicle did you install the airbags in and what equipment did you purchase?
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07-23-2014, 04:15 PM
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#25
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Site Team
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Canyon Lake, Texas
Trailer: 2015 19 "Past Tents", 2021 F150 Lariat 2.7L EB
Posts: 10,222
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hotfishtacos
Yes this is the factory hitch and since it's welded in you can't put an aftermarket one in. What vehicle did you install the airbags in and what equipment did you purchase?
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Used this one on my Lincoln MKX:
2008 Lincoln Mkx Air Bag Suspension Kits | Air Lift Company
Just read something on another forum about wdh use on Hondas. Like you I wondered why Honda says not to use a wdh. Seems that part of the answer is the unibody construction rather than body on frame. One of that forums members bent their receiver upward like you did when using a wdh.
__________________
"You can't buy happiness, but you can buy an RV. And that is pretty close."
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07-23-2014, 04:28 PM
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#26
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Site Team
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Canyon Lake, Texas
Trailer: 2015 19 "Past Tents", 2021 F150 Lariat 2.7L EB
Posts: 10,222
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Or to be more precise, Honda's technique for unibody construction. Seems many other unibody vehicles don't have an issue with a wdh.
__________________
"You can't buy happiness, but you can buy an RV. And that is pretty close."
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07-23-2014, 04:30 PM
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#27
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: St.Albert, Alberta
Trailer: 21 ft November 17th
Posts: 847
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Although there are many good quality unibody vehicles rates to pull our trailers this is the reason why I prefer a full frame vehicle with a solid hitch . I too have air bags In the rear coils on our Yukon to assist the factory rear air shock leveling system
As the factory system is only rated for about 400 lbs which is about our tongue weight , the systems is Firestone ride rite and I have the on board compressor so it can be adjusted from the drivers seat . It works very well .
__________________
MacRae, 21ft
2016 GMC Yukon SLT
St.Albert Alberta
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07-23-2014, 04:38 PM
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#28
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Portland, Oregon
Trailer: 2002 Escape 13'
Posts: 967
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dave macrae
As the factory system is only rated for about 400 lbs which is about our tongue weight , the systems is Firestone ride rite and I have the on board compressor so it can be adjusted from the drivers seat . It works very well .
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Dave, this is the one I have my eye on. Airbags go inside the springs and the onboard compressor adjusts from the dash area. I had a similar setup on a Dodge Caravan that I pulled a popup with years ago. I also like the fact that I can travel heavier with my canoe on top sometimes and dial the system in for the current load.
Sorry to hijack this thread with the side conversation...THX!
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07-23-2014, 04:38 PM
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#29
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: North Vancouver, British Columbia
Trailer: 2009 Escape 17B 2020 Toyota Highlander XLE
Posts: 17,136
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Toyota made the mistake of sending me a customer satisfaction questionnaire. I told them I wasn't going to fill it in because they haven't answered my questions. I explained I had asked Toyota Canada why they 'do not recommend a WDH' and they did not reply. I explained that I asked the service manager the same question and he didn't know and said he would email Toyota for the answer. A month later, I still had no answer, but I did have an email from Customer Relations saying that 'Toyota does not recommend WDH' and told me to ask my service manager why, since they, at Customer Relations, didn't know the technical reasons.
Apparently, they can't talk to their own people.
So, now I'm really irritated. Told them I was unlikely to buy another Toyota product and suggested in their advertising that they advise people not to tow over 45 mph, like it says in the manual. Still don't have an answer to WDH.
__________________
What happens to the hole when the cheese is gone?
- Bertolt Brecht
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07-23-2014, 06:04 PM
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#30
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Site Team
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Canyon Lake, Texas
Trailer: 2015 19 "Past Tents", 2021 F150 Lariat 2.7L EB
Posts: 10,222
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gbaglo
Toyota made the mistake of sending me a customer satisfaction questionnaire. I told them I wasn't going to fill it in because they haven't answered my questions. I explained I had asked Toyota Canada why they 'do not recommend a WDH' and they did not reply. I explained that I asked the service manager the same question and he didn't know and said he would email Toyota for the answer. A month later, I still had no answer, but I did have an email from Customer Relations saying that 'Toyota does not recommend WDH' and told me to ask my service manager why, since they, at Customer Relations, didn't know the technical reasons.
Apparently, they can't talk to their own people.
So, now I'm really irritated. Told them I was unlikely to buy another Toyota product and suggested in their advertising that they advise people not to tow over 45 mph, like it says in the manual. Still don't have an answer to WDH.
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Seems one guy did get a response. Here's a snip from another forum I've read:
"According to the guy who replied to me from Toyota Canada, he said the you cannot use WDHs with the Highlander or the RAV4 because it is too hard on the unibody construction."
__________________
"You can't buy happiness, but you can buy an RV. And that is pretty close."
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07-23-2014, 06:23 PM
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#31
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: North Vancouver, British Columbia
Trailer: 2009 Escape 17B 2020 Toyota Highlander XLE
Posts: 17,136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rbryan4
Seems one guy did get a response. Here's a snip from another forum I've read:
"According to the guy who replied to me from Toyota Canada, he said the you cannot use WDHs with the Highlander or the RAV4 because it is too hard on the unibody construction."
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The problem is the internet is like the game where the story changes as it's being told. How did "does not recommend" ( which is what it says in the manual ) end up being "cannot use".
That's why I've been trying to get a proper explanation from Toyota.
Keep in mind that the Toyota dealer installed my hitch prior to delivery.
__________________
What happens to the hole when the cheese is gone?
- Bertolt Brecht
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07-23-2014, 06:27 PM
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#32
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Surrey B.C., British Columbia
Trailer: 2012 Escape 19
Posts: 150
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dave macrae
Although there are many good quality unibody vehicles rates to pull our trailers this is the reason why I prefer a full frame vehicle with a solid hitch .
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There is a compromise. The Ford Flex has a rear quarter frame and Ford recommends the use of a WDH when towing heavier than 2000lb. We have had a good experience with our 19 & AWD Flex. Very comfortable ride, easy to get in and out of and handles well with the long wheel base. Of course the outside design is not for everyone and that might explain why they are a good buy used.
__________________
Brian
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07-23-2014, 06:34 PM
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#33
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: North Vancouver, British Columbia
Trailer: 2009 Escape 17B 2020 Toyota Highlander XLE
Posts: 17,136
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Yup, the Flex reminds me of a shoe box with wheels drawn on the sides of the box ( I was a deprived kid ).
__________________
What happens to the hole when the cheese is gone?
- Bertolt Brecht
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07-23-2014, 06:43 PM
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#34
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Site Team
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Canyon Lake, Texas
Trailer: 2015 19 "Past Tents", 2021 F150 Lariat 2.7L EB
Posts: 10,222
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"the internet is like the game where the story changes as it's being told."
That is a very accurate description.
__________________
"You can't buy happiness, but you can buy an RV. And that is pretty close."
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07-23-2014, 06:44 PM
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#35
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Surrey B.C., British Columbia
Trailer: 2012 Escape 19
Posts: 150
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gbaglo
Yup, the Flex reminds me of a shoe box with wheels drawn on the sides of the box ( I was a deprived kid ).
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My friends who drive pickups tell me it looks like a hearse. I pointed out you have to be emotionally secure to drive one.
__________________
Brian
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07-23-2014, 07:27 PM
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#36
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Trailer: 1979 Boler B1700
Posts: 14,935
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I don't understand this. The original post clearly and helpfully described structural distortion of the hitch structure of a Honda Pilot, resulting from the unapproved use of a WD system. The responses veered into statements about unibody construction limiting towing capacity. The two are unrelated - the hitch is not the body structure, and there was no mention of any failure of the body.
(The Pilot hitch is also the bumper structure, but it's not the body. You can bolt on a new hitch/bumper)
The Pilot's hitch failure says nothing about unibody construction. Many other unibody vehicles are rated and equipped for WD use.
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07-23-2014, 07:51 PM
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#37
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Member
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico
Trailer: 2013 Escape 19
Posts: 42
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We have a 2002 Toyota Tacoma 4dr V6 with factory Tow package. We added airbags to the springs and do not have a wdh. The airbags were essential as the headlamps were lighting up the night sky before we added them. Now we ride flat and even.
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07-23-2014, 08:19 PM
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#38
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Site Team
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Canyon Lake, Texas
Trailer: 2015 19 "Past Tents", 2021 F150 Lariat 2.7L EB
Posts: 10,222
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian B-P
I don't understand this. The original post clearly and helpfully described structural distortion of the hitch structure of a Honda Pilot, resulting from the unapproved use of a WD system. The responses veered into statements about unibody construction limiting towing capacity. The two are unrelated - the hitch is not the body structure, and there was no mention of any failure of the body.
(The Pilot hitch is also the bumper structure, but it's not the body. You can bolt on a new hitch/bumper)
The Pilot's hitch failure says nothing about unibody construction. Many other unibody vehicles are rated and equipped for WD use.
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The hitch in question is not bolted on. It is welded in by Honda. You'd have to cut it out to replace it, and as far as I know, it'd have to be another Honda hitch.
As for the bending, depending on who you ask -- Toyota, Honda, etc, some will say that certain unibody vehicles are under too much strain with wdh, and some will say not.
I did not speak to the towing capacity of unibody vehicles, but was merely talking about the bent hitch and possible reasons for it.
__________________
"You can't buy happiness, but you can buy an RV. And that is pretty close."
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07-23-2014, 08:40 PM
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#39
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Portland, Oregon
Trailer: 2002 Escape 13'
Posts: 967
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rbryan4
The hitch in question is not bolted on. It is welded in by Honda. You'd have to cut it out to replace it, and as far as I know, it'd have to be another Honda hitch.
As for the bending, depending on who you ask -- Toyota, Honda, etc, some will say that certain unibody vehicles are under too much strain with wdh, and some will say not.
I did not speak to the towing capacity of unibody vehicles, but was merely talking about the bent hitch and possible reasons for it.
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rbryan, you are right, the hitch is welded in. I crawled under the Pilot and looked at the hitch and the frame construction and the bending was localized to where the receiver tube is welded to the sheet metal hitch assembly. I also looked generally at the unibody frame construction and don't think it would have distorted if the receiver mounting didn't bend. I'm sure the "unibody" discussion contains a lot of speculation.
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07-23-2014, 08:43 PM
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#40
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Site Team
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Canyon Lake, Texas
Trailer: 2015 19 "Past Tents", 2021 F150 Lariat 2.7L EB
Posts: 10,222
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hotfishtacos
rbryan, you are right, the hitch is welded in. I crawled under the Pilot and looked at the hitch and the frame construction and the bending was localized to where the receiver tube is welded to the sheet metal hitch assembly. I also looked generally at the unibody frame construction and don't think it would have distorted if the receiver mounting didn't bend. I'm sure the "unibody" discussion contains a lot of speculation.
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True. Like gbaglo said, "the story changes as it's told" -- depending on who you ask.. I would think they can weld in a new piece, but that sucks that it's bent.
__________________
"You can't buy happiness, but you can buy an RV. And that is pretty close."
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