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Old 07-23-2014, 08:47 PM   #41
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Gen 2 Highlander (2008-13) OEM class 3 hitch is bolted on. After reading about Steve's Pilot I pulled out the manual with magnifying glass. No reference to WDH. Searched Web and found this on Toyota Nation:
Well, it appears that Toyota does NOT recommend AGAINST using a WDH. At least that's the reply I've rec'v after emailing Toyota. It took a series of emails to get a complete answer. Below is the succession of emails. One thing that still confuses me is he (Toyota) said a WDH will not be required given HL's 5000 lb tow rating. But most hitch shops I've spoken to seem to recommend WDH's for tongue weights above 300-400 lbs.

MY ORIGINAL EMAIL (Nov. 7):

Hi: I bought a 2009 Highlander Base FWD V6 with towing pkg.

1) Can a weight distributing hitch be added for towing, or are they not recommended?
2) Is there a recommended maximum trailer length for the Highlander's wheelbase?

TOYOTA'S FIRST REPLY (Nov. 10):

Thank you for contacting Toyota Motor Sales, U.S.A., Inc.

I apologize for any concern you may have been caused regarding towing with your 2009 Highlander, as it is not our intention.

Your 2009 Highlander Owner's Manual does not recommend against a weight distributing hitch.

There is no recommended maximum trailer length.

Sincerely,
James Fewel
Toyota Customer Experience
Toyota Motor Sales, U.S.A., Inc.

MY FOLLOW-UP QUESTION (Nov. 10):

Thank you for your reply. I need to clarify/confirm the following statement that you wrote below: "Your 2009 Highlander Owner's Manual does not recommend against a weight distributing hitch". Since you said "does not recommend against", I interpret this to mean that a weight distributing hitch CAN be used. Is this correct? If so, then what is Toyota referring to on Page 251 in the 2009 Highlander Owners Manual when it states the following: "Do not use axle-mounted hitches, as they can cause damage to the axle housing, wheel bearings, wheels or tires"? Thank you very much for clarifying this, Best regards Gary Black

TOYOTA'S FOLLOW-UP REPLY (Nov. 11):

You're welcome, Mr. Black, and thanks for asking; a weight-distributing mounts to the frame, not the axle.

Sincerely,
James Fewel

Toyota Customer Experience
Toyota Motor Sales, U.S.A., Inc.

MY FOLLOW-UP CONFIRMATION (Nov. 11):

Thank you, James, So I take that to mean that it is OK (according to Toyota) for me to use a weight distributing hitch. Please let me know if I am mistaken.

Best regards
Gary Black

TOYOTA'S FOLLOW-UP REPLY (Nov. 11):

Thanks for asking, and it is ok to use a load-equalizing hitch, Mr. Black, but with your vehicle's 5,000-lb tow capacity, not necessary.

Sincerely,

James Fewel
Toyota Customer Experience
Toyota Motor Sales, U.S.A., Inc.

MY FINAL EMAIL (Nov. 11):

James, Thanks again. Hitch shops told me that any travel trailer with a tongue weight over 300-400 lbs will probably need an equalizing hitch. Since several trailers I'm looking at have tongue weights of 350-450 lbs (within Toyota's 500 lb max limit), I wanted to make sure it would not harm the vehicle or compromise safety. There are internet discussions claiming Toyota doesn't recommend that type of hitch (due to unibody construction). So I wanted to check to make sure myself.
Thank you again, and have a great evening! Gary Black

TOYOTA'S FINAL EMAIL (Nov. 11):

You're absolutely welcome, Mr. Black.

Sincerely,
James Fewel
Toyota Customer Experience
Toyota Motor Sales, U.S.A., Inc.




AND ANOTHER ONE FROM TOYOTA CANADA:
Amazing.

Just for the record, here is details of my correspondance with Toyota Canada. I'm wondering if someone else would be willing to contact Toyota to try and break the tie, since the above does not recommend against WDH, but the guy I was corresponding with said that a WDH cannot be used.

My Original Email (Nov 4th):

Can the OEM Trailer Hitch support a weight distribution hitch? My vehicle is a 2009 Toyota Highlander Limited, Canadian Edition, with the towing package, V6 engine, no navigation system. I have the OEM wiring and Class III hitch installed.

Thanks.

Dan


Reply from Toyota Canada (Nov 5th):

Dear Mr. Boudreau:

Thank you for your most recent correspondence.

We would like to take this opportunity to advise you that the OEM wiring and class III hitch for the 2009 Highlander can not support a weight distribution hitch.

We hope this information is helpful. Thank you for taking the time to write.

Sincerely,

Stewart McMillan
Customer Interaction Centre
Toyota Canada Inc.

My Follow-up Email (Nov 5th):

Can you please explain why? The wiring I can understand since you need a 7 pin and not a 4 pin, but for a hitch rated at 5000 lbs? So the hitch can tow 5000 lbs but the hitch cannot distribute the weight to the rest of the frame by means of a weight distribution hitch? I would like to see some documentation supporting this. So is Toyota recommending me to tow 5000 lbs without a weight distribution hitch? That contradicts most recommendations regarding towing. One of the main reasons I bought the Highlander was because of its towing capacity. Please provide this documentation to support your answer.

Dan

Reply from Toyota Canada (Nov 6th):

Dear Mr. Boudreau:

Thank you for your most recent correspondence.

We would like to take this opportunity to mention that most hitch manufacturers only recommend weight distribution when towing over 5000 pounds; the 2009 Highlander has a maximum towing capacity of 5000 pounds. Weight distribution hitches put a great deal of strain on the frame of the vehicle to achieve the distribution of the weight. Unibody vehicles are not built for this type of strain; the Highlander is a unibody vehicle that does not have a full frame, it is not recommended for use with a weight distribution hitch.

Please be advised that weight distribution hitches are common on trucks that have full frames. Toyota vehicles that have full frames are the Tundra, Tacoma and the 4Runner.

We apologize for any inconvenience this has caused. We hope this information is helpful and thank you again for taking the time to write.

Sincerely,

Stewart McMillan
Customer Interaction Centre
Toyota Canada Inc.


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Old 07-23-2014, 08:53 PM   #42
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Wow. It'd sure be alot easier if manufacturers would just give owners ALL the pertinent info they need, and a straight answer when asked.
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Old 07-23-2014, 09:06 PM   #43
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Looks like Toyota Customer Service people get paid by the word
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Old 07-23-2014, 09:11 PM   #44
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Looks like Toyota Customer Service people get paid by the word
Yes Two Words " VICARIOUS LIABILITY"

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Old 07-23-2014, 09:15 PM   #45
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It was not my intention to offend anyone with unibody tow vehicles, I was merly trying to say that there seems to be a lot of speculation and miss information about what is ok and what's not , by using a full frame vehicle with plenty of extra tow capacity gives me
Peace of mind that's all .
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Old 07-23-2014, 09:34 PM   #46
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Yup. Same people I was dealing with: Customer Interaction Centre.
But, mine claimed they couldn't deal with technical issues. You have to read from the bottom up if you want to follow chronologically.

Dear Mr. Baglo:

Thank you for your recent email.

We would like to take this opportunity to advise you that as you are aware, Toyota Canada Inc. does not recommend using a weight distribution (load equalizing) hitch.

With this in mind, our Customer Interaction Centre is not equipped to provide the technical information that you require. We suggest that you discuss your inquiry directly with the Service Department at your Toyota dealership. They would be in the best position to advise you in this regard. If they have already contacted Toyota Canada Inc. and are awaiting a response, we kindly suggest keeping in contact with them to receive updates on your inquiry.

Thank you once again for taking the time to write.

Sincerely,

Steven Gagnon
Customer Interaction Centre
Toyota Canada Inc.

on 2014-07-11-16.41.33.000000, gbaglo@shaw.ca (GLENN BAGLO) wrote:





I sent the following June 30 tocustomercare@jptoyota-northshore.com
Prior to that I have sent email to Toyota Canada without a response:


Back on May 29, while in for service, I asked agent ( I believe Adam Lang,
but for some reason Chris comes to mind ) for information about weight
distribution hitch and my RAV4 Sport V6.
The manual says WDH is not recommended and I asked if I could get some
expansion of just what not recommended means. I had a WDH ( installed in
your shop before I took possession of the vehicle ) since 2008 and have
experienced no issues.

He said he had emailed Toyota Canada and was awaiting a response. Ive not
heard anything since, which is not surprising, since I couldnt get Toyota
Canada to respond to me when I asked directly. I would suggest that Toyota
Canada be more responsive if they want to retain customers.

Glenn Baglo
(Deleted phone # )
There are no steelhead.



On Jul 11, 2014, at 10:34 AM, toyota_feedback@toyota.ca wrote:

Dear Mr. Baglo:

Thank you for your recent email.

We would be pleased to comment with regard to your inquiry; however, we
kindly ask that you reply to this email with more details regarding the
nature of your concerns.

Once again, thank you for taking the time to write.

Sincerely,

Steven Gagnon
Customer Interaction Centre
Toyota Canada Inc.

I wrote:
You are full of crap.
You do not respond when I make a query by email.
Im unlikely to buy another Toyota.

Glenn Baglo
There are no steelhead.



On Jul 10, 2014, at 3:38 PM, Toyota Canada Inc. <surveys@toyota.ca> wrote:



You could win a $1,000 ESSO Gas Gift Card, just for telling us what
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tomorrow.


Please take a few minutes to complete our survey, and as our thanks
to you, your name will be entered in a draw to win one of 3 Esso Gas
Gift Cards, 2 of which are valued at $500 and one is worth $1000.
Thank you for sharing your feedback with us and good luck with the
draw.


Time Sensitive please respond promptly


To enter the survey, go to www.customersurvey.toyota.ca and enter the
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Old 07-23-2014, 09:37 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gbaglo View Post
Yup, the Flex reminds me of a shoe box with wheels drawn on the sides of the box ( I was a deprived kid ).
I heard or read an artile about the designer of the Ford Flex. Apparently he had a fascination with the old Electrolux vacuum cleaner and deisgned the body to resemble the vaccum. I can definitely see the vacuum cleaner lines after hearing that description. Regardless of design history, I have also heard great things about the Flex.

I think he with his vacuum and Baglo with his shoe boxes would get along just great at a designers workshop! One played with vacuum cleaners and the other with shoe boxes. Got to have a creative mind if you are a deprived kid.

As to BRietkerk's reference to a hearse - the vehicle that really reminds me of a hearse is the newer Honda Odyseey. We had a 2000 Odyssey and it was a really great vehicle, hated to have to finally part with it.
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Old 07-23-2014, 09:39 PM   #48
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No offense here, just confusion. Lot of real world experience on Toyota Nation though for Gen2 Highlander over the last 5 years that offers some measure of assurance that a WDH is used a lot and haven't heard of any problems....yet.
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Old 07-23-2014, 09:45 PM   #49
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Several on the forums using WDH with RAV4 too and only speculation on what Toyota means by "not recommended". Would benefit Toyota to explain rather than endure such speculation and customer frustration.
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Old 07-23-2014, 10:01 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rossue View Post
Gen 2 Highlander (2008-13) OEM class 3 hitch is bolted on. After reading about Steve's Pilot I pulled out the manual with magnifying glass. No reference to WDH. Searched Web and found this on Toyota Nation:
Well, it appears that Toyota does NOT recommend AGAINST using a WDH.
CONFUSED? ME TOO!
Hey Rossue, you better get out some Windex and clean that old magnifying glass!!!...My 2010 Honda Pilot owner's manual, on page 441 states, "Weight Distributing Hitch" A weight distributing hitch is not recommended for us with your vehicle, as an improperly adjusted weight distributing hitch may reduce handling, stability, and braking performance. How much more of your full page dissertation is also just plain wrong or misquoted??
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Old 07-23-2014, 10:22 PM   #51
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You're talking apples and oranges. No, make that Honda Pilot and Toyota Highlander.
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Old 07-24-2014, 10:24 AM   #52
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Hi: All... Here's a peach for comparison!!! Nissan doesn't recommend the Frontier for towing a 5th. wh. I guess they never heard of the Escape 5.0 series?
Now back to the question at hand... What to tow a 19' with? Alf
escape artist N.S. of Lake Erie
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Old 07-24-2014, 03:35 PM   #53
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Rossue, thanks for the detailed log. The Toyota guy with the Nov 5 and Nov 6 responses is obviously clueless; it is unfortunate you were given this misinformation.

Hotfishtacos, as Baglo suggested I believe that Rossue read his Highlander manual carefully in response to your Pilot experience (since they are similar vehicles), and found that Toyota had no corresponding statement about WDH.

Toyota has different WDH recommendations for three of their unibody vehicles (all of which have bolt-on hitch receivers available as genuine Toyota accessories):
  • RAV4 - WDH not recommended
  • Highlander - no mention of WDH
  • Sienna - WDH required if hitch weight is over 350 pounds
I don't this this is a problem; it reflects real differences in the vehicles. The Sienna can carry a lot, but has a longer tail and smaller tires than the others so a high hitch load risks overloading the rear axle capacity. The RAV4 is the shortest, and so perhaps most vulnerable to WDH abuse.
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Old 07-24-2014, 03:43 PM   #54
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I contacted Andersen about whether or not their WDH could be used on my vehicle. There is nothing I can find from Ford/Lincoln about whether or not to use any type of WDH on the Lincoln MKX. Here is Dave's reply from Andersen:

"One of the main differences between our weight distribution hitch compared to the others on the market is how the pressure is applied to the frame of the tow vehicle. The traditional spring bar setup is often never recommended on smaller tow vehicles due to the stress it can put on the frame. When a spring bar setup is installed it can be installed with enough force to lift the rear tires off of the ground of the vehicle so the frame is taking an incredible amount of stress. Our design using the cushioned urethane springs to create leverage is much less stress and we see the hitch being used on many vehicles similar to yours without causing issues with the frame. The one negative our hitch has due to not having as much stress on the frame is it can be difficult to remove almost all of the tongue weight of the trailer. Our hitch would probably be able to distribute about half of the tongue weight of your setup so you would see the back sag similar to loading the rear with 150-200 pounds or the equivalent of having someone who weighs that much standing on the bumper.

We have not heard from Ford or any manufacturer directly about the design of our hitch and we do not plan on hearing from them, the testing they would need to do to approve a product would be intense and not a profitable venture for them to pursue. I do recommend some sort of sway control on the trailer and vehicle and some people have bought our setup just for using the sway and bounce control setting.

Keep us posted if you need any information as we want you to tow safely.

Thanks,

Dave A."
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Old 07-24-2014, 03:46 PM   #55
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Highlander WDH

I checked the manual for my 2014 Highlander and could find no mention of using a WDH. The sales guy (for what it is worth) said that trailers weighing < 5000 lbs don't need a WDH, and therefor not mentioned. But like several folks here, I was told you should use a WDH with FWD vehicles. So I am going to use an Andersen when we pick up the new trailer.
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Old 07-24-2014, 03:54 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rbryan4 View Post
I contacted Andersen about whether or not their WDH could be used on my vehicle...
Here is Dave's reply from Andersen:

"One of the main differences between our weight distribution hitch compared to the others on the market is how the pressure is applied to the frame of the tow vehicle. The traditional spring bar setup is often never recommended on smaller tow vehicles due to the stress it can put on the frame. When a spring bar setup is installed it can be installed with enough force to lift the rear tires off of the ground of the vehicle so the frame is taking an incredible amount of stress. Our design using the cushioned urethane springs to create leverage is much less stress and we see the hitch being used on many vehicles similar to yours without causing issues with the frame. The one negative our hitch has due to not having as much stress on the frame is it can be difficult to remove almost all of the tongue weight of the trailer. Our hitch would probably be able to distribute about half of the tongue weight of your setup so you would see the back sag similar to loading the rear with 150-200 pounds or the equivalent of having someone who weighs that much standing on the bumper..."
The Andersen people can be quite helpful, but this is simply bull.
  • Any common WD system can be adjusted to determine the force applied.
  • All WD systems act though a spring (bending steel bars in most cases, axially loaded urethane cylinder in an Andersen) which cushions the force
  • The hitch sees the same forces for any given level of load transfer, regardless of the WD design.
He is really just saying that you can't crank the Andersen up to forces as high as most others, so it can't hurt as much. This doesn't matter because you only apply what you need.

As we have discussed previously, the Andersen springs are only available in one stiffness, which is likely too stiff to be ideal for our low-load use.
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Old 07-24-2014, 03:54 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeonW View Post
I checked the manual for my 2014 Highlander and could find no mention of using a WDH. The sales guy (for what it is worth) said that trailers weighing < 5000 lbs don't need a WDH, and therefor not mentioned. But like several folks here, I was told you should use a WDH with FWD vehicles. So I am going to use an Andersen when we pick up the new trailer.
Yeah, I tend to agree. If the Andersen was able to remove only half of the tongue weight on my setup as they suggest, it'd still be a much more level and stable ride IMHO.
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Old 07-24-2014, 04:14 PM   #58
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The hitch in question is not bolted on. It is welded in by Honda. You'd have to cut it out to replace it...
I'll admit that I was initially concerned that I had this wrong, since I was working from two-year-old memories of examining the current Pilot at a dealership. I did a search of on-line parts listings to confirm what I saw earlier, but I will still make a trip to the local Honda dealer for confirmation if there is any uncertainty.

It is understandable that one might not see that this bumper/hitch assembly is not welded into the vehicle, but it does appear to be bolted on - the bolts are hidden deep behind the plastic bumper cover.

This is the part in question: HITCH ASSY., TRAILER (Honda part 74690-SZA-A00). In the assembly drawing (of which I have attached a small snippet showing the hitch/bumper itself), you can see the shape of the part, and that it is attached to the unibody by four M14 x 41mm flange-head bolts. The links and illustration are for 2012 (not 2010), only because the 2010 listings did not include this category of parts; the Pilot is the same design for model years 2009 to current.

This is good news - the hitch can be replaced if desired (yes, by another of the same). Unfortunately, the part costs over $300 here (probably much less in the U.S.), and wildly guessing I would say it will take a couple hours to remove and replace, due to the bumper cover which also must be removed and replaced (re-using the original parts).
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Old 07-24-2014, 04:20 PM   #59
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The statement that raised my eyebrows suggested cushioning somehow reduced stress.
As you know from sleeping on a thin mattress, the cushioning effect disappears when it is compressed.

Our design using the cushioned urethane springs to create leverage is much less stress
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Old 07-24-2014, 04:25 PM   #60
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The statement that raised my eyebrows suggested cushioning somehow reduced stress.
As you know from sleeping on a thin mattress, the cushioning effect disappears when it is compressed.

Our design using the cushioned urethane springs to create leverage is much less stress
It disappears when that mattress is fully compressed, or "bottoms out". As long as there is some movement left in the spring of a WD system, it can reduce peak force when the system moves (and maintain force instead of going slack when the system moves the other way). Just sitting still, the force of the WD system will be the same whether the spring is soft or hard.

The original writer probably doesn't understand the meaning of "stress", as compared to "force", so I'll just let that one go.
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