What to tow a 19' with?

[gbaglo]

Ya, well, I don't know what I'm talking about. So there.

[Loren & Cathy]

I haven't a clue yet as what I'm going to do as far as the Anderson hitch but a quick story about how tough a pickup frame is. A friend of mine bought a fork lift and was going to trailer it just a few miles. The guy loading the fork lift over shot the center of the trailer and it's 13,000 pounds put the trailer hitch on the ground and the pickup front end up in the air. I inspected the hitch and frame closely and could not see any sign of distortion anywhere. This was a 2011 Chevy Silverado 1500 and I was glad it wasn't my truck. Loren

[rbryan4]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

I'll admit that I was initially concerned that I had this wrong, since I was working from two-year-old memories of examining the current Pilot at a dealership. I did a search of on-line parts listings to confirm what I saw earlier, but I will still make a trip to the local Honda dealer for confirmation if there is any uncertainty.

It is understandable that one might not see that this bumper/hitch assembly is not welded into the vehicle, but it does appear to be bolted on - the bolts are hidden deep behind the plastic bumper cover.

This is the part in question: HITCH ASSY., TRAILER (Honda part 74690-SZA-A00). In the assembly drawing (of which I have attached a small snippet showing the hitch/bumper itself), you can see the shape of the part, and that it is attached to the unibody by four M14 x 41mm flange-head bolts. The links and illustration are for 2012 (not 2010), only because the 2010 listings did not include this category of parts; the Pilot is the same design for model years 2009 to current.

This is good news - the hitch can be replaced if desired (yes, by another of the same). Unfortunately, the part costs over $300 here (probably much less in the U.S.), and wildly guessing I would say it will take a couple hours to remove and replace, due to the bumper cover which also must be removed and replaced (re-using the original parts).

Well, that's good. I was just going by what he said in the original post -- that it was welded.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by rbryan4

I was just going by what he said in the original post -- that it was welded.

Understood... and as I mentioned earlier it is understandable if anyone actually looking at the vehicle sees the hitch as welded into the unibody. I assume Steve's assessment of the Pilot installation was based on looking at the vehicle and not seeing a bolted connection, and I'm still prepared to dig further if there's a question and/or accept better information if I'm mistaken.

I noticed that the VW Touareg (and thus presumably the Porsche Cayenne and Audi Q7, for those with lots of money for tugs) use a similar design.

[ruscal]

Steve,
I would like to take a look see at your Honda to see what happened to the hitch. You can PM me for phone number.
I can help you with the hitch replacement if you decide to order one.
Russ

[hotfishtacos]

Originally Posted by ruscal

Steve,
I would like to take a look see at your Honda to see what happened to the hitch. You can PM me for phone number.
I can help you with the hitch replacement if you decide to order one.
Russ

Thanks Russ! I will contact you so you can see it when I get back home but it is not bent enough to replace the assembly. All the welds are also fine. I crawled back under my truck to look again and saw a bolt-on assembly this time... ...and Brian B-P is a wealth of information. Thanks!

Steve

[ruscal]

Any bend should not be ignored. The forces it took to produce the bend were deep cycling the material which wouldl contribute to fatigue and eventual failure given time. I had a similar situation to Steve's on my Jeep wrangler. The factory rear frame member was breaking loose from the frame rails. My rear bumper was attached to the cross member. The trailer hitch was slowly bending downward! Luckily I saw the sag and was able to go in and apply some heavy angles to the junctures before I lost my Scamp. Cross members are cheap, trailers aren't. Airbags may be a good thing to try in lieu of WDH in the case of unibody vehicles with light structure. The airbags could add a little to the manufacturers maximum tongue weight figure. The tongue weight is prescribed as a percentage of how much your trailer weighs so can't be arbitrarily changed. You could also add a friction sway device to help control any minor wagging. You would also want to consider if the receiver/cross member could support say 500-600 pounds without flexing. Mine couldn't pass that test without a little help.
Russ

[Rossue]

Ok, so this thread is kinda pushing me over the edge. I spouted off a while ago about V8 yada yada, and my little voice inside is telling me I need one for the new 21 we're getting in September. Like Toyotas so drove a Sequoia first. Nice tank. Then drove a 2014 Yukon SLT and liked it. 8500 lb. tow capacity; 15/21 mileage. My Highlander is 17/21. The Sequoia is 13/17. Found a 2011 Lease return for sale at a dealer with 34K miles. Think I will about be able to even trade it. I definitely won't be thinking about the vehicle anymore if this happens (I think)(-;

[Cypherian]

I will just drop this here.
From Page 7
http://www.firestoneip.com/site-reso...11_Catalog.pdf
"

Ride-Rite air helper springs utilize a pair of

convoluted air springs which can be adjusted for
changing loads. These air springs are capable of
3,200 to 5,000 lbs.* of load leveling capacity.
Ride-Rite air helper springs enhance the ride by
reducing inter-leaf friction. Please remember that
air springs do not increase the load-carrying capacity

of your vehicle."

I have them on my Tacoma but only to smooth the bounce out, the Tacoma suffers from soft spring rates eventually I will put in a complete upgraded set of springs and remove the air bags. When using air bags with a WDH your supposed to put 5 psi the bags adjust your WDH then put air in the bag to suit your needs.

Cypher

[gbaglo]

I don't see air bags as an alternative to WDH for vehicles like my RAV4 that, while four wheel drive, run mostly in front wheel drive. As I understand it, airbags won't transfer weight to the front wheels, where it is needed. They just stiffen the rear suspension ( OK on a rear wheel drive like Tacoma ).

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by gbaglo

As I understand it, airbags won't transfer weight to the front wheels, where it is needed. They just stiffen the rear suspension.

True, but they can still be very handy, and make the tug better able to handle tongue weights within the vehicle's rated capacity.

Originally Posted by gbaglo

I don't see air bags as an alternative to WDH for vehicles like my RAV4 that, while four wheel drive, run mostly in front wheel drive.

My tug is strictly front wheel drive, and I don't use WDH. I'll note, though, that my van has longer wheelbase than a RAV4, or even a Pilot, so it is less affected by hitch weight. I would check the axle loads and see if there is a rear axle overload problem to fix, or if traction is such a problem that a small front axle load increase is worth pursuing, before considering WD.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Cypherian

I will just drop this here.
From Page 7
http://www.firestoneip.com/site-reso...11_Catalog.pdf
...
I have them on my Tacoma...

While Ride-Rite is the right Firestone air spring for a Tacoma (or other leaf-spring suspension), the product for a Pilot (which has coil springs) is the Coil-Rite - found in the same catalog. Although the Coil-Rite runs lower air pressure and so cannot support as much load, it should be lots for something like a Pilot towing an Escape 19'.

Coil-Rites are popular among people towing with some vehicles which have enough capacity, but are softer in the rear than desired... such as our Sienna

[Cypherian]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

While Ride-Rite is the right Firestone air spring for a Tacoma (or other leaf-spring suspension), the product for a Pilot (which has coil springs) is the Coil-Rite - found in the same catalog. The Coil-Rite runs lower air pressure and so cannot support as much load, it should be lots for something like a Pilot towing an Escape 19'.

Coil-Rites are popular among people towing with some vehicles which have enough capacity, but are softer in the rear than desired... such as our Sienna

My point Brian was they do not increase load capacity as was suggested earlier on in postings, while the ride rite is not the correct model for the vehicle in question if you check all of the styles none will increase the load capacity of a vehicle.

Cypher

[Brian B-P]

It looks like Steve's Pilot siutation is well on the way to being worked out.
Sometimes "it takes a village"...

Originally Posted by hotfishtacos

... it is not bent enough to replace the assembly. All the welds are also fine

Good to hear. A relatively small angle can substantially affect WD force, and matters very little to a plain ball hitch, so the tilt angle might be small enough to not matter.

I think Russ makes a good point, which should be carefully considered.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Cypherian

My point Brian was they do not increase load capacity as was suggested earlier on in postings, while the ride rite is not the correct model for the vehicle in question if you check all of the styles none will increase the load capacity of a vehicle.

Agreed!
I use Coil-Rites, but still stay within both the rear axle rating and the hitch load rating.

[Fox hunt]

Ok I'm confused I bought a Toyota highlander 2009 with tow package to pull a used 17b with a WDH not sure is this right or should I just pull with a straight bumper hitch ?

[gbaglo]

I would have a class III hitch receiver installed ( which is what you need to employ a WDH ) if you don't already have it. You don't have to use the WDH, but you will probably find the ride is more comfortable and feel more secure with the WDH than without.
The hitch receiver is what accepts the WDHitch, or a standard "bumper pull" hitch.

[rbryan4]

Originally Posted by Fox hunt

Ok I'm confused I bought a Toyota highlander 2009 with tow package to pull a used 17b with a WDH not sure is this right or should I just pull with a straight bumper hitch ?

Its confusing because of the ambiguity from the manufacturers. A member of another forum asked Toyota whether or not a wdh could be used on the 2009 Highlander, and here's what they replied with:

"Your 2009 Highlander Owner's Manual does not recommend against a weight distributing hitch."

Recommend against? Sheesh!

I'm thinking that if the manufacturer does not specifically state that a wdh should NOT be used, and if ETI recommends using it, then do it. The rest may fall into the fertilizer category.

[RickM]

Originally Posted by Fox hunt

Ok I'm confused I bought a Toyota highlander 2009 with tow package to pull a used 17b with a WDH not sure is this right or should I just pull with a straight bumper hitch ?

Just to clarify, there is not bumper hitch for the Highlander. Either it's the OEM bolt-on or an after market. When you pick up your new Escape, Reace can advise you if an WDH is needed or not.

[ruscal]

My '99 Jeep Wrangler is suspended with air bags only, no steel springs. The suspension is controlled by a computer that maintains a previously programed ride height. There is a high volume belt driven compressor that keeps a small tank at pressure to supply the demands of the system. It can correct ride height actively constantly correcting, or only when the vehicle passes through a certain preset speed. With the Scamp on the back the rear bags typically have about 40psi. in them to maintain level ride. While airbags may not increase a vehicles load carrying rating they can certainly do the same as adding stiffer springs to that vehicle. Other components were beefed up also. Massive cromoly tubing control arms, panhard rods, steering rods, cromoly axles, etc. Wranglers are only rated at 1500 lbs towing, and I have no idea how much mine can safely carry, but it has been beefed up somewhat. I also added 4 wheel disc brakes and heavy duty aluminum cross flow radiator.
Most people wouldn't feel comfortable modifying their new Highlander or Pilot to that extent, but it can't hurt to give them a little help where needed.
Russ