What Tow Vehicle for Escape 19?

[BCnomad]

Originally Posted by rubicon327

Wouldn’t it be a 23?

My tin foil hat theory is that Bigfoot made a 25 so Reace should too.



.....

[egraham]

Thank you, that is really helpful. We will be buying used, and are now also researching "which year".

[Bill and Earline]

We used to always focus on the number of cylinders as an indicator of towing capability. The better gauge is the engine's torque rating. Our 2003 V6 4Runner has 283 lb/ft of torque. The Toyota V8s of that vintage had only slightly more. We towed 20,000 miles with that 283 lb/ft and it did fine, sort of.
Our current Ram V6 diesel has 420lb/ft. The mid-sized GM Colorado/Canyon 4 cylinder diesel has 369 lb/ft.
The Ford V6 3.5 liter V6 turbo gas engine now has upper 400's, maybe 480 lb/ft.

The newer vehicles are now coming with 6, 8, and even 10 gear transmissions, which allow the perfect gear more than older vehicles.

Torque's the main thing. Gas engines generally give their best torque at 3,000 to 4,000 rpm's and automotive diesels at 1500 to 3000 rpm. Those with gas engines can plan on hearing engines doing what they're designed for. It just makes a little rev-Ing sound.

Have fun test driving. That's my favorite part. Drive them all.

Bill

[thoer]

Originally Posted by Bill and Earline

...
Have fun test driving. That's my favorite part. Drive them all.

Bill

All excellent points by our reining Torque Contest Champion!

[ericw]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

I pay relatively close attention to automotive transmission technology, and I don't recall ever seeing a transmission that can't be shifted down (from the automatic selection) in individual gear ratio steps. [....]

Brian, in general, I agree it is odd to not have this control. However, I was surprised when I bought a 2007 Honda Odyssey a number of years ago to tow my scamp 13' and found that although you can choose D (5th) and 1,2,3 you can not select 4th gear. While not fatal and the Odyssey is a great all around vehicle, I did miss that feature numerous times. I made sure my F150 did not have that same surprise.

I also agree that the integrated tow control is a very nice feature. The additional information provided by the vehicle allows for better decisions. However, in my experience it is implemented better in some vehicles than others. In fact it can be done badly enough (not terrible, but not great either) that I would prefer an aftermarket prodigy P3 to the factory option.

Perhaps I misunderstood your comment, but I am adding my experience to the discussion. YMMV.

Eric

[cpaharley2008]

I love hearing my engine rev to 6500 and it runs best in the 4000 rpm, but I still get 24 mpg when driving....but towing, it does not!

[dfandrews]

Originally Posted by ericw

Brian, in general, I agree it is odd to not have this control. However, I was surprised when I bought a 2007 Honda Odyssey a number of years ago to tow my scamp 13' and found that although you can choose D (5th) and 1,2,3 you can not select 4th gear. While not fatal and the Odyssey is a great all around vehicle, I did miss that feature numerous times.........................
Eric

I have the same situation with our 2011 Honda Pilot, and it's the one thing I don't like about an otherwise great vehicle. Button on the shifter locks out 4 & 5, leaving you with 1,2,3; or you can pull it out of D into 2, or into 1.
On the highway towing, at about 62 mph, it wants to hunt between 4th and 5th. Arghhhh!

[ericw]

Originally Posted by dfandrews

I have the same situation with our 2011 Honda Pilot, and it's the one thing I don't like about an otherwise great vehicle. Button on the shifter locks out 4 & 5, leaving you with 1,2,3; or you can pull it out of D into 2, or into 1.
On the highway towing, at about 62 mph, it wants to hunt between 4th and 5th. Arghhhh!

I agree. I end up driving without cruise 99% of the time for this exact reason so I can limit the hunting and maximize gas mileage. However, when you are driving across the country that gets a little old.

[egraham]

When we were towing our Casita, with 15 inch trailer tires, we were told to stay under the 60 mph speed rating for the tires. Are the Escape tires rated for a higher speed? That would make me deliriously happy!

BTW, though I am the little woman in our family, I am the car and trailer person and do 95% of the driving. One of our most charming memories is my husband being complimented for teaching me to back up after. Of course we did not correct the the person who commented.

This thread is really helpful. Thank you, all.

[gbaglo]

Here is chart for Carlisle tires. How's 81 mph?

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by egraham

When we were towing our Casita, with 15 inch trailer tires, we were told to stay under the 60 mph speed rating for the tires. Are the Escape tires rated for a higher speed?

Escape trailer tires never had a 60 mph speed rating... and the Casita probably didn't either. The default speed rating for Special Trailer (ST) tires - of any brand - is 65 mph if not specifically indicated otherwise. In the past few years some ST tires (including the Carlisles now used by Escape) have started to appear with higher ratings, as gbaglo showed above.

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

Escape trailer tires never had a 60 mph speed rating... and the Casita probably didn't either. The default speed rating for Special Trailer (ST) tires - of any brand - is 65 mph if not specifically indicated otherwise. In the past few years some ST tires (including the Carlisles now used by Escape) have started to appear with higher ratings, as gbaglo showed above.

This made me curious as to what the Maxxis M8008 is on our trailer.
Found this on another forum which is directly from Maxxis:
"The Maxxis M8008 ST Radial is "Q" speed rated. However, according to the Tire and Rim Association, the U.S. tire industry specification authority, inflation pressures and load specifications in general for any ST Radial trailer tires, without a service description, regardless of the manufacturer, are designed and rated at 65 MPH. If the speed is higher than 65 MPH, the pressure and load need to be adjusted according to the following guidelines:

From 66 to 75 MPH – the tire inflation pressure needs to increase 10 PSI (not to exceed the maximum PSI the tire is rated for) but requires no load adjustment.

From 76 to 85 MPH – the tire inflation pressure needs to increase 10 PSI (not to exceed the maximum PSI the tire is rated for) and load should be reduced by 10%.

We hope this information is helpful. Thanks for your inquiry and interest in Maxxis Tires."

Learned something new.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by rubicon327

Nice.

Originally Posted by rubicon327

I'm not trying to start an argument here (although that is the usual result of mentioning this in a forum), but this means that an Escape with the tires inflated to the maximum pressure listed on the sidewall (as Escape recommends) already has a tire speed rating of substantially higher than 65 mph.

For instance, an Escape 19' has a GVWR of 5000 pounds, so with four tires it needs less than (because some of that would be tongue weight) 1250 pounds of capacity per tire. An ST205/75R15 tire only needs 26 PSI of inflation to have this much capacity, or 1389 pounds of capacity to have enough capacity if the tire's capacity is reduced by 10%. An ST205/75R15 tire only needs 32 PSI of inflation to have 1389 pounds of capacity, so at 42 PSI it meets the pressure and load adjustments described by Maxxis. A Load Range C tire inflated to its maximum of 50 PSI would be inflated more than enough for 85 mph service.

Of course, to accept this speed rating, one would need to accept the validity of the standard load-inflation tables, as well as the quoted information from the Tire & Rim Association (which created the ST, LT, and P standards)... but many members of trailer forums chose not to accept either.

[gharper]

The smaller size, lightness, durability and ability to be towed with a mid sized SUV is what attracted us to Escape 19. Escape Industries state on their website " With a dry weight of only 2510lbs, the Escape 19’ has been designed specifically for mid-sized vehicles such as SUVs and mid-sized trucks with a V6 engine or a minimum towing capacity of 5000lbs."

While a larger truck or SUV would tow it more easily a midsize SUV with a towing capacity of 5,000 lbs works well too.

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by gharper

The smaller size, lightness, durability and ability to be towed with a mid sized SUV is what attracted us to Escape 19. Escape Industries state on their website " With a dry weight of only 2510lbs, the Escape 19’ has been designed specifically for mid-sized vehicles such as SUVs and mid-sized trucks with a V6 engine or a minimum towing capacity of 5000lbs."

While a larger truck or SUV would tow it more easily a midsize SUV with a towing capacity of 5,000 lbs works well too.

I agree in concept, but that weight you quoted is for a classic 19 before options. The newer 19's are heavier and that statement on the website is outdated and needs to be qualified. The numbers below are also with empty tanks. I know most don't travel with full tanks, but if they did this adds over 600 lbs. A full fresh water tank alone is about 230 lbs. Adding the overhead A/C is 100 lbs right there.

This is from ETI website FAQ's which more accurately sums it up.
"What tow vehicle is needed to pull an Escape?
On average, most Escape customers carry about 800lbs – 1,000lbs of cargo with them when they travel and add about 200lbs – 300lbs of options to their Escape Travel Trailer.
Therefore, the

• 17′ Escape, Plan A with a dry weight of 1,970lbs will travel fully loaded at approximately 2,970lbs.
• 17′ Escape, Plan B (Bathroom) with a dry weight of 2,400lbs will travel fully loaded at approximately 3,400lbs.
• 19′ Escape, with a dry weight of 2,950lbs will travel fully loaded at approximately 4,100lbs.
• 21′ Escape, with a dry weight of 3,210lbs will travel fully loaded at approximately 4,510lbs.
• Escape 5.0TA with a dry weight of 3,885lbs will travel fully loaded at approximately 5,185lbs.

Depending on the Escape Travel Trailer you are interested in towing, your tow vehicle should have a towing capacity of between 4,000lbs for the 17′ and up to 5,500lbs for the Escape 5.0TA Fifth Wheel.
Please note these weights can vary depending on several variables therefore we encourage you to allow for a safety margin between the estimated towing weight of any Escape trailer and the towing capacity of your tow vehicle."

I'm not at all disagreeing with you. Just pointing out that with a 5,000 lb towing capacity with a 19 you will have less margin than one thinks.

[CarlNH]

[QUOTE=rubicon327;218791 The newer 19's are heavier and that statement on the website is outdated and needs to be qualified.....
I'm not at all disagreeing with you. Just pointing out that with a 5,000 lb towing capacity with a 19 you will have less margin than one thinks.[/QUOTE]

Yep, this is what I'm a bit concerned about in thinking about a 2017 19. Not much real world data out there yet regarding weight and, especially, tongue weight with typical loading. My Highlander is rated 5000# weight and 500# tongue weight. Still looking for a classic 19 ;-)

[cpaharley2008]

My Classic 21 had 500# tongue weight with 50% full rear fish tank and packed for 2 weeks on the road. My new style 19 comes in at 450# with the dual 6ers in the box, propane and 50% fresh water fill in rear. My classic 21 weighed 3800#, my new style 19 comes in 300# less, again packed for 2 weeks on the road

[CarlNH]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

My Classic 21 had 500# tongue weight with 50% full rear fish tank and packed for 2 weeks on the road. My new style 19 comes in at 450# with the dual 6ers in the box, propane and 50% fresh water fill in rear. My classic 21 weighed 3800#, my new style 19 comes in 300# less, again packed for 2 weeks on the road

Hey, thanks, that is very useful info! Will be loaded for months on the road but probably not a lot different than for 2 weeks ;-)

[Marry]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

My Classic 21 had 500# tongue weight with 50% full rear fish tank and packed for 2 weeks on the road. My new style 19 comes in at 450# with the dual 6ers in the box, propane and 50% fresh water fill in rear. My classic 21 weighed 3800#, my new style 19 comes in 300# less, again packed for 2 weeks on the road

A build in fish tank? Awesome!!! That's what I want too...!!

[cpaharley2008]

You gettin fresh with me....