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Old 10-03-2017, 12:20 PM   #1
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What Tow Vehicle for Escape 19?

Our beloved 1997 4Runner was totalled last year by another driver, and we will need to buy a new vehicle to tow the new Escape 19 we are planning to buy. We are concerned about whether a 4Runner will have the oomph needed to pull it (the new Escape 19) up hill and over dale.

When we first began trailer camping, we pulled a 21' Wilderness Ultralight with our 5000 lb towing capacity 1997 4Runner. We were resolved to stay within 75% of the towing capacity limit and it weighed under 3600 pounds when fully loaded with our gear, gas, and propane but empty water and sewage tanks. But we were climbing the I-80 hill to Lake Tahoe in the slow truck lane, going no more than 40 mph. A few years later, we towed our new 17' Casita, which came in at only 3100 pounds when loaded for camping, at our 1997 4Runner's normal uphill speed. We never noticed the Casita's presence, we were so nimble!

I have read in this forum that many people tow their Escape 19s with 4Runners --- do you stay under 3750 pounds total trailer weight (75% of 5000 pounds)? How do you manage that, given the dry weight of the trailer before options are added and gear is loaded?

For those who tow with another vehicle, why did you choose the vehicle you tow with, and would you make the same choice again?

All comments welcome!

Thank you,
Elisabeth
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Old 10-03-2017, 12:29 PM   #2
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You just can't beat an F150 for towing. I've had ours for 5 years, 83,000 miles, much of it towing our 17' Casita ( just ordered an Escape 21) and I still love it. A full sized pickup can't be beat IMHO.

A big one for us was the ability to keep the "stinky and dirty" stuff in the bed of the pickup. That's why we dumped our SUV's and went with the pickup. Much nicer to be able to just toss nasty stuff back there and take off. No fumes or funny smells in the cab of the vehicle or the camper.
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Old 10-03-2017, 12:49 PM   #3
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We, IowaDave, Leon and some other folks tow 21's with our Highlanders and are more than satisfied with the experiences. Interestingly starting with the 2017 Highlanders, Toyota raised the GCWR of Highlander with the new V6 engine to 11,000#, which now give me an easy margin on the one weight rating we were closest to.

But others will give you completely different opinions so as the ever wise Donna says, YMMV
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Old 10-03-2017, 01:02 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by egraham View Post

For those who tow with another vehicle, why did you choose the vehicle you tow with, and would you make the same choice again?

All comments welcome!

Thank you,
Elisabeth
Hi Elisabeth,

I tow my 2013 19" with a 2016 Tacoma. I had a 2014 Tacoma before but the main reason I traded it in so soon is the 3rd generation Tacoma (2016 and later) has a more fuel efficient engine and more importantly for towing, one can manually select any of the 6 gears on the automatic transmission. That allows me to down shift approaching hills before I loose speed and maintain my momentum. in most cases and can maintain 60-65 MPH except for the steepest grades. But even on long steep passes, I can maintain 55 MPH.

I keep my weight low by running with empty tanks for the most part. I use the "AllStays" app on my phone to locate fresh water sources near my destination if I'm boon docking. And try to empty the waste tanks as soon as possible after breaking camp. (Again, using the "AllStays" app to locate dump stations,) The Tacoma with two package has a 6,400 # tow rating so it is easy for me to stay under 75% of capacity.

I freely admit my bias toward Toyata build quality. Starting with my '86 Corrolla to our 2010 Prius, I have had 4 sedans, and 3 Tacoma's. In my case I need a pickup for my daily life and I like the nimbleness of the Tacoma. The main downside of the Tacoma is the ride is not as smooth as other options.

Others on this forum that prefer a smoother ride and the enclosure of an SUV swear by the Highlander. The recent vintage Highlanders also have the manual select transmissions that I talk about above but with 4 wheel independent suspension one has a smoother, more comfortable ride than the Tacoma. Some of these forum members are using Highlanders for 21' Escapes others are pulling 19. But I will let them speak for themselves as to their experience pulling grades as that seems to be your main concern. The 4 runner has a 5 speed rather than 6 speed transmission so I can't speculate on how they perform. Good Luck!
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Old 10-03-2017, 01:06 PM   #5
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YMMV?

I would love to have a Tundra but we travel with 2 cats who can be made comfortable only in the LARGE rear area of a fully-enclosed vehicle: litter, water, food, baskets, duvet to curl up in, and on top of. We really need the full back area of an SUV.
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Old 10-03-2017, 01:13 PM   #6
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One of the things I loved about our 4Runner was my ability to downshift (so to speak) when going down hills so that the engine did some of the braking. We also added a transmission cooler to the '97 4Runner before we took off on our travels (it came with the factory tow package, but that didn't include a transmission cooler back then).

(I suspect I am not the only person who still mourns the loss of a 4Runner!)
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Old 10-03-2017, 01:16 PM   #7
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Hi Elisabeth,
We opted for the Sequoia 2017 to pull our 19’. It is perhaps a bit of over kill but we also carry bikes, sea kayaks and at times for adults. We spent 4 weeks in the Rockies this summer and appreciated the extra power. The transmission temperature always stayed within the safe operating range even on hot days climbing the Coquihalla Highway and the Icefields Parkway.

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Old 10-03-2017, 01:22 PM   #8
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We tow our 2013 19 with a 2012 Highlander. In the four years we have had the trailer we have had no issues towing with the Highlander. We had vehicle reliability problems towing boats with another vehicle from a different manufacturer so we are happy with how the Highlander is performing. We put the dirty stuff in the front box of the trailer and find using a WDH improves towing performance. Wish we had a bit more torque on steep grades but not enough to justify for us to change vehicles at this point.

If we were going to purchase another vehicle it would likely be another Highlander given the new models have a bit more HP/torque than the 2012 and we like the reliability and comfort of the Highlander. Our second choice would be a Tacoma so we could have space in the bed.
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Old 10-03-2017, 01:24 PM   #9
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Quote:
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YMMV?
"Your mileage may vary" - basically means everyone is entitled to their own opinion and what works for some, may not work for others.
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Old 10-03-2017, 01:43 PM   #10
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Thank you. So many acronyms, so little time!
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Old 10-03-2017, 01:56 PM   #11
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SMA, SLT.
Anyway, I don't understand this suggestion that some vehicles can't be geared down heading downhill. Do it all the time in my RAV4.
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Old 10-03-2017, 02:05 PM   #12
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SMA, SLT.
Anyway, I don't understand this suggestion that some vehicles can't be geared down heading downhill. Do it all the time in my RAV4.
They can, but often on normal automatics like my 2014, I only had the options of D, D2 or D1. On my 2016 I can pick any one of the 6 gears so I have more granular control. I can manually pick the perfect gear for the situation.

Also I was talking about gearing down heading UPHILL not down hill. I can downshift to one lower gear, keeping the engine in its ideal torque range for pulling the hill.
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Old 10-03-2017, 02:11 PM   #13
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They can, but often on normal automatics like my 2014, I only had the options of D, D2 or D1. On my 2016 I can pick any one of the 6 gears so I have more granular control. I can manually pick the perfect gear for the situation.
Or 8 in the 2017 Highlander. Towing to the rally 6th seemed to be a really nice sweet spot. The extra 25HP, better MPG, more than 1000# increase in GCWR, the 8 speed tranny and a host of new safety features convinced me to do something very far outside my ordinary self -- trade in our 2016 on a 2017. But my salesman sure was a happy guy!
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Old 10-03-2017, 02:31 PM   #14
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Or 8 in the 2017 Highlander. Towing to the rally 6th seemed to be a really nice sweet spot. The extra 25HP, better MPG, more than 1000# increase in GCWR, the 8 speed tranny and a host of new safety features convinced me to do something very far outside my ordinary self -- trade in our 2016 on a 2017. But my salesman sure was a happy guy!
Hi Eric, Yes, same experience trading in my 2014 on a 2016. Took three days to convince Paula but that ended up working in my favor as in the end, I got a great deal. One model grade up, nice option package for $10K cash.
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Old 10-03-2017, 02:37 PM   #15
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The nice thing about purchasing a vehicle that has a built in brake controller vs an add on after market one is the coordination between the tug and the trailer. Using the tow mode allows the tug to automatically downshift for engine braking and the two (tug and trailer) seem to act as one. In addition make sure the tug has a full sized spare, something a lot of vehicles do not have these days. I just purchased one for my Ram 1500!!
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Old 10-03-2017, 02:39 PM   #16
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Often lost in these "which tow vehicle" threads is the fact that the "best" tow vehicle selection will depend upon a host of questions, such as:

- The topography of the location where you will tow most often (i.e., steep grades frequently or just once a year?)
- The number of people that will typically travel in the vehicle
- Bikes, kayaks, coolers, firewood, or other heavy-ish things coming along?
- Frequently towing with full water tank and/or waste tanks?
- Etc. etc.

These questions are particularly important for the 19 and 21, where any of the above factors can push a tow vehicle rated for 4000 to 5000 lbs. from "tows great!" to "not enough," even if you are staying within the rated tow capacity.

Highlanders and V6 4Runners can work very well for a 19 if you aren't towing a lot in the mountains and/or don't have a lot of people and gear on board. We found our 4Runner's performance lacking for towing our 19 (family of four plus all of the things listed above!) here in Colorado. Swapped the 4Runner (which was a 2009 V6) for a V8 Land Cruiser and now much happier with the change.

I suspect that any of the other 8-cylinder Toyota/Lexus vehicles (Sequoia, Tundra, GX 470, and V8 4Runner (circa 2004-09)) would have offered similar improvement, but for a variety of reasons didn't suit our preferences.
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Old 10-03-2017, 03:22 PM   #17
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Elisabeth: We tow a classic 19 with a 2005 and 2007 V6 4Runner and it handles it quite well. If I had a newer 19 (heavier) and was towing on steep grades regularly I would probably want a bit more vehicle. The 4th gen 4Runners (2003-2009) are sought after with the available V8 partly for the better towing capacity (7000# 4WD, 7300# 2WD). The V8 is no longer available unfortunately. Would need to jump up to the Sequoia with current models boasting a 7100# (4WD) 7400# (2WD) towing capacity or others as canyonrider hit on.

If you go to the top search and put in "towing with Toyota" into the Search Site / Google box you will find a bunch of good threads on the topic.
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Old 10-03-2017, 03:40 PM   #18
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We have a 2004 Tundra double cab that we love but which doesn't have a high tow rating. That was one of the reasons we went with Escape. (Note: The double cab has a large back seat which could easily accommodate a set-up for cats.). Now we're looking at a new Tundra with a higher tow rating which, if we get one, would mean we could tow a larger Escape. Sigh!! It's a vicious cycle.
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Old 10-03-2017, 03:46 PM   #19
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I pay relatively close attention to automotive transmission technology, and I don't recall ever seeing a transmission that can't be shifted down (from the automatic selection) in individual gear ratio steps. On the other hand, selecting a gear doesn't mean that the transmission will necessary use that gear: it will upshift to higher gears as necessary to keep the engine under redline, will downshift to lower gears to avoid stalling, and may be slow to respond (especially if hydraulically controlled).

For instance, our van has D-4-3-2-1 positions on the lever ("D" is 5th gear). Newer versions of the same vehicle have a "sport" mode - move the lever over then bump it forward or rearward (labelled "+" and "-" to step up and down; this was done because with six or more ratios that's too many positions for the shifter. Column-mounted paddles are often used for the "+" and "-", especially in vehicles intended to give a "sporty" or "high tech" impression. Of course some control arrangements are better than others: for a while it was popular to have a separate "OD" switch to go from the highest gear to the next one down, then shifter positions for the other ratios, which was just silly.

A limitation in some cases is just that there are not enough gear ratios, so the steps are undesirably large. For instance, our Ford motorhome has only a 4-speed transmission; occasionally I have wanted to shift down from 3rd for more power or engine braking, but could not because the engine speed would have been too high all the way down in 2nd.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cpaharley2008 View Post
The nice thing about purchasing a vehicle that has a built in brake controller vs an add on after market one is the [connection] between the tug and the trailer. Using the tow mode allows the tug to automatically downshift for engine braking and the two (tug and trailer) seem to act as one.
My 2004 Toyota Sienna minivan downshifts for engine braking - automatically - and has neither a tow/haul mode nor an integrated trailer brake controller. Toyota calls the feature which downshifts when needed for engine braking "Grade Logic", and it should be included in every modern automatic transmission vehicle. It will normally act more aggressively when tow/haul mode is engaged in vehicles which have that feature (such as our motorhome, which is like any other Ford SuperDuty).
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Old 10-03-2017, 04:29 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Brian B-P View Post

Newer versions of the same vehicle have a "sport" mode - move the lever over then bump it forward or rearward (labelled "+" and "-" to step up and down; this was done because with six or more ratios that's too many positions for the shifter. Column-mounted paddles are often used for the "+" and "-", especially in vehicles intended to give a "sporty" or "high tech" impression.
This the way the later model Tacoma's and Highlanders work.



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My 2004 Toyota Sienna minivan downshifts for engine braking - automatically - and has neither a tow/haul mode nor an integrated trailer brake controller. Toyota calls the feature which downshifts when needed for engine braking "Grade Logic", and it should be included in every modern automatic transmission vehicle.
This the way the later model Tacoma's and Highlanders work. I lightly apply the break until engine breaking engages, then I can let my foot off the break and it will use engine breaking as long as the grade stays the same.
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