Monument Valley Campground

[FMLNM]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

When you think about it, all of our national parks/sites once belonged to the native americans...

Indeed...a point worth remembering now and then....

[Vermilye]

Originally Posted by MyronL

Right on, and same goes for their Antelope Canyon tours, near Page, AZ, which at around eighty bucks for two people is absurd. Maybe visitors from another planet will shell out, but a rip-off is a rip off in any language.

Having toured the upper Antelope Canyon twice & the Lower Antelope Canyon once, I have to agree that it is expensive, particularly the photo tours for the upper, but as a location for a photographer, it is well worth it. I've visited many other slot canyons, but the colors & the light at Antelope is magnificent.

If you want to do the upper canyon (easier walking, but very controlled) do it in April or May (or in the winter) before the crowds arrive, and if you are a photographer, be willing to pay extra for the photo tour. The photo tour guides will clear sections of the canyon so you can take images without people, and they know the exact times for the shafts of light to illuminate the different sections of the canyon. While it was $65.00 for the tour with Carol Bigthumb's organization in 2011, I see it is now $88.00.

The lower canyon is less developed, is far less crowded, but requires climbing ladders & staircases to get through. I don't find it as photogenic, but if you have a tripod and SLR camera they turn you loose on your own for 2 hours. In 2012 it was $26.00 for the "Photographer's Pass".

Here is some information (and photos) from my visits: Antelope Canyon

And one of my favorite images:

[Dave Walter]

Originally Posted by rbryan4

Yeah, I'll pass. I remember the last time we went to 4 Corners they charged us just to see the USGS Marker -- that they didn't fund but the taxpayers did. I understand its on Navajo land but it smacked of money grubbing to me. YMMV.

Went to 4 corners last summer just as all of the craft sellers were packing up for the day. Was a very hot day, the new bathrooms were not open and the porta cans were brimming. Paid $15 for the opportunity to use those disgusting facilities and spend two minutes taking a couple pics. Agree with others that it was a tremendous ripoff.

[Dave Walter]

Also went to Antelope canyon last summer. Thought the tour was great. The ride out in the back of the open trucks was a bit crazy. Overall the $40 entrance fee was well spent for a first visit. Don't know that we would do it a second time for that cost.

[Grant & Kathy]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

When you think about it, all of our national parks/sites once belonged to the native americans...

Monument Valley never was a National Monument or a National Park. It has been part of the Navajo Reservation for over 100 years.

[cpaharley2008]

I did not say Monument Valley was, just saying that all of our natural beauty was once theirs.

[FMLNM]

Originally Posted by Grant & Kathy

Monument Valley never was a National Monument or a National Park. It has been part of the Navajo Reservation for over 100 years.

Here is a nice history of Monument Valley from Smithsonian:
Behind the Scenes in Monument Valley- page 1 | Travel | Smithsonian

[MyronL]

The concept of land ownership is artificial hoo-blap. You cannot own land. You can only exploit it. If a picture (of land) is worth a thousand words it may well be worth a thousand bucks, even more, if you make your living taking them. For me, the hunt is the thing. Any confessed,certified, picture taking addict like myself loves the intense satisfaction gained from scouting, planning, composing, and capturing such uniquely wonderful, though easy, prey like Monument Valley, Antelope Canyon, and the like. We can’t help ourselves.

It boils down to two personal questions: Do I want the shot, and, how bad do I want it? After seeing the cost of those two places, guess I did not want it bad enough.

[Ron in BC]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

I did not say Monument Valley was, just saying that all of our natural beauty was once theirs.

I guess it depends how far back you want to go. It's my understanding that every living soul in the Americas is descended from migrants from another continent.

Interesting concept, that one group by virtue of being here longer has special rights while others, no matter whether their ancestors have been here for many generations, have no more rights than someone who swore their oath of citizenship yesterday. OK, rant over.

Ron

[MyronL]

Wasn't so far back in time England claimed ownership of the sea. Anyone know who in a few hundred years will own current BLM land in Quartzsite?

[rbryan4]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

I did not say Monument Valley was, just saying that all of our natural beauty was once theirs.

Interestingly, the concept of ownership, deeds and titles for the land was a strictly European idea, introduced to America. The Native Americans had no such concept, until it became clear that the 'white man' intended to take it and claim it. They were stewards of a land that the "great spirit" had allowed them to live on. Today, not so much. Maybe this is a case of "be careful what you wish for".

[float5]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

When you think about it, all of our national parks/sites once belonged to the native americans...

Yes. And we won't even go into the sorry history involving Indians in this country and some still going on. Maybe First Nation peoples are treated better in Canada.

I don't like bad deals but in Indian country I go out of my way to pay for whatever services they have. I will just know that Monument Valley will cost more than usual. I have no doubt it will be worth it though. Can't wait to go! Glad this was brought up. I will probably be irked at the cost but I would not miss it. Lots of things no doubt cost more that are worth less.

Indians at the pueblos in New Mexico do indeed try to continue their heritage including regard for the land. I am sure many others do also.

[Ron in BC]

Originally Posted by Floating Cloud

Indians at the pueblos in New Mexico do indeed try to continue their heritage including regard for the land. I am sure many others do also.

Yes, and by contrast to Monument Valley, paying 20 bucks to drive around a road, at Mesa Verde they give value for the entrance fee. Great guides and experience.

Ron

[rbryan4]

Originally Posted by Ron in BC

Yes, and by contrast to Monument Valley, paying 20 bucks to drive around a road, at Mesa Verde they give value for the entrance fee. Great guides and experience.

Ron

Mesa Verde is great. Many of my relatives live in Cortez, not far away. Each time we've visited its been wonderful. That is how a Native American historical/sacred site should be run. Perhaps the fact that it's also a NP makes a difference.

[kstock11]

Also one of the few National Parks that I've ever been in that had full Wi-Fi in the campground! No cell service, but you're able to stay connected there. The ranger led tours were outstanding. We were there early in the season and took the early tours. Nice to be in a group of 7 instead of a group of 20+. The evening shows are also enjoyable. (They have a amphitheater that would hold about 250 but we only saw about 25 at a time)

[FMLNM]

Originally Posted by rbryan4

That is how a Native American historical/sacred site should be run. Perhaps the fact that it's also a NP makes a difference.

Mesa Verde is indeed amazing. But it is worth thinking a little about this, and other, sacred Native American sites being 'owned' and controlled by the NPS. It is a double edged sword... Mesa Verde was 'discovered' by Wetherill on 'his' range land after a Ute told him about it and said the Utes consider it sacred and never go there. After Wetherill did some excavation collected some artifacts for museums, it was declared a NP in 1906, primarily to protect it from further looting by collectors, since there were no inhabitants there to stop the looters. Were it not for the NPS protection, there would probably be nothing left. It is a conundrum...we certainly love to visit these Native American places and we enjoy the amenities that the NPS provides, but they are still someone else's sacred sites...luckily the NPS tries to treat these sites with respect and tries to make sure that visitors do so also.

There is an important difference between Mesa Verde and Monument Valley. Mesa Verde NP consists of ancestral ruins...abandoned many years ago but still considered sacred.

Monument Valley is currently occupied by its ancestral people. Navajo still live in Monument Valley. You are driving through their homes and their sacred sites. You are a visitor on their land.

If you are really interested in places like Mesa Verde and archeology, another really interesting area is adjacent to Mesa Verde...really a continuation of what we see in Mesa Verde NP. It is Ute Mountain Tribal Park, run by the Ute people and the ruins there can only be seen via pre-arranged escorted tours...often one on one. The ruins are almost untouched...pottery and dried corn still lying in the ruins as they were left...

[rbryan4]

Originally Posted by FMLNM

Monument Valley is currently occupied by its ancestral people. Navajo still live in Monument Valley. You are driving through their homes and their sacred sites. You are a visitor on their land.

If you are really interested in places like Mesa Verde and archeology, another really interesting area is adjacent to Mesa Verde...really a continuation of what we see in Mesa Verde NP. It is Ute Mountain Tribal Park, run by the Ute people and the ruins there can only be seen via pre-arranged escorted tours...often one on one. The ruins are almost untouched...pottery and dried corn still lying in the ruins as they were left...

I agree. There is a difference. We've been to Ute Mountain as well. For those who don't know, when you look at Ute Mountain from the Cortez side, it looks like a Ute Indian chief laying down with his arms folded. there's even a little stub of rock sticking up that looks like it could be his feet. Locals call it the "sleeping Ute".

[MyronL]

Back in '86 took the (guided) truck ride through Canyon de Chelley ...hard to beat.

[Dave&Jane]

Anyone heading to Monument Valley in the immediate future may wish to reconsider. They are having a big weather event, with snow, rain and mud. Presumably campgrounds & lodging will be in operation, but poor road conditions are likely to interfere with the tours.
Stuck in the mud: School canceled in Monument Valley, Montezuma Creek due to impassable roads

[Dave&Jane]

We stayed in the "View" campground on April 4, 2015. The campground is located inside the Monument Valley Navajo Tribal Park, north of the main parking lot on the top edge of a hill overlooking the Valley. There are no hookups, but there is a dump station (with water) and a restroom & showers. The camping cabins and tent camping sites all have GREAT views of the Valley. The view from the RV sites are not as good, but some sites are better than others. This obviously is a brand-new facility.

You may wish to consider Gouldings, a few miles to the west, with hookups, trees, stores, museum, etc. The view there is not as good, but you could always enjoy sunset at the Tribal park, if desired.

-Dave