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01-18-2018, 05:53 PM
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#1
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Austin, Texas
Trailer: 2017 Escape 21
Posts: 282
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National Park Fees going up?
I have been seeing stories today about proposals of NP fees going up a considerable amount. Like from $30 to $70 a vehicle. I have a senior pass, so it may not affect me. I can understand increases, but more than double?
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01-18-2018, 06:10 PM
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#2
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Galesville, Wisconsin
Trailer: 2017 21 "Blue II" & 2017 Highlander XLE (previously 2010 17B "Blue" & 2008 Tacoma)
Posts: 4,232
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If the Feds have the same philosophy as our Wisconsin state legislators, then they will expect the National Parks to be completely self sustaining financially. In Wisc, no other state money goes to funding the parks anymore, so entry and camping costs have to rise to try to maintain them.
__________________
Eric (and Mary who is in no way responsible for anything stupid I post)
"Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance." George Bernard Shaw
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01-18-2018, 06:18 PM
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#3
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: West Coast, Florida
Trailer: None now
Posts: 1,266
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James Gang
I have been seeing stories today about proposals of NP fees going up a considerable amount. Like from $30 to $70 a vehicle. I have a senior pass, so it may not affect me. I can understand increases, but more than double?
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It's for 17 of the busier parks.
Here is an article from when they were first proposing it.
https://www.nps.gov/orgs/1207/11-21-...e-proposal.htm
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01-18-2018, 06:24 PM
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#4
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: North of Danbury, Wisconsin
Trailer: 2018 Escape 21C
Posts: 3,033
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Even though we reside in Wisconsin , we camp in Minnesota. Iowa and Michigan State Parks . Wisconsin doesn't want our business or deserve our money.
For those members who live in the Midwest , Iowa has some beautiful State Parks with nice campgrounds and at a fair price.
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01-18-2018, 06:34 PM
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#5
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Benton County, Iowa
Trailer: 2013 Escape 21 Classic Number 6, pulled by 2018 Toyota Highlander
Posts: 8,251
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Actual Cost Living
Quote:
Originally Posted by wetzk
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I can only draw one conclusion. I did not vote for HIM.
Iowa Dave
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Ain’t no trouble jacking a double Burma Shave
Dave
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01-18-2018, 06:42 PM
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#6
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: West Coast, Florida
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Posts: 1,266
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iowa Dave
I can only draw one conclusion. I did not vote for HIM.
Iowa Dave
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I think the parks have been bleeding for a long time. Like the post office and Amtrak they are expected to pay for themselves while being starved.
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01-18-2018, 07:01 PM
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#7
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Madison area, Wisconsin
Trailer: 2016 Escape 19 Chevy 2012 Express 3500 Van
Posts: 1,753
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The emphasis appears to be to shift users to the "private sector". Make the fees high as or higher than them. Same old scam. It's money, honey.
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01-18-2018, 07:25 PM
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#8
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Site Team
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Canyon Lake, Texas
Trailer: 2015 19 "Past Tents", 2021 F150 Lariat 2.7L EB
Posts: 10,222
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It's a big increase from $30 to $70 for sure, but that's mitigated somewhat by the fact that we are talking about a 7 day pass, not a daily fee, and it will be a peak season increase, not year round. Also, 80 percent of the fees will be used at that particular park to improve facilities. The other 20 percent will be shared with other national parks.
I don't see it as a scam at all. Things cost money. Federal funding or budget priorities are a separate issue. One can argue the merits of whether or not the NPS should be fully funded (I believe it should), but that doesn't address the current reality the NPS faces. Unless the federal government decides to fully fund the operational and infrastructure costs of the NPS, fees will increase, or the facilities and services will degrade.
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"You can't buy happiness, but you can buy an RV. And that is pretty close."
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01-18-2018, 08:46 PM
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#9
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Kent, Ohio
Trailer: 2017 21c Sold, 2023 Bigfoot 25RQ
Posts: 1,391
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I recently retired from the NPS after 30 years. I watched the real budgets adjusted for inflation continue to fall over the course of 20 of the 30 years.
Always good for photo ops with politicians, the parks have been woefully underfunded.
One park in Ohio where I worked, maintenance staff declined by 50 to 60 percent with more work and properties to maintain. I was glad to retire as my it work went from a 3 person operation to one.
I won’t get into politics on this very wonderful forum, but read about the mass resignations of the advisory council for the nps and draw your own conclusions.
I myself will be upping my advocacy of our marvelous resources and urge all of us who utilize the resources to pay attention and support the public resources that we all enjoy.
Our 21 will be heading out this summer for cross country number 2 as well as visiting old friends in NPS sites.
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01-18-2018, 09:06 PM
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#10
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Galesville, Wisconsin
Trailer: 2017 21 "Blue II" & 2017 Highlander XLE (previously 2010 17B "Blue" & 2008 Tacoma)
Posts: 4,232
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Well said Oldwave and thank you for your service.
__________________
Eric (and Mary who is in no way responsible for anything stupid I post)
"Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance." George Bernard Shaw
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01-18-2018, 09:17 PM
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#11
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: North of Danbury, Wisconsin
Trailer: 2018 Escape 21C
Posts: 3,033
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I've read several articles on the NPS advisory board concerning there mass resignation . It says a lot about our public priorities and the people we choose to lead this nation.
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01-18-2018, 09:22 PM
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#12
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Tampa Bay Area, Florida
Trailer: 2015 Escape 5.0TA (Little Elsie) Extensively Personalized
Posts: 2,969
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Dilly Dilly!
__________________
What a long strange trip it’s been!
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01-18-2018, 09:24 PM
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#13
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: SLO County, California
Trailer: 2014 Escape 21C 2019 Expedition
Posts: 5,213
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If the funding has dropped for decades then the maintenance can has been kicked down the road by both parties. The resignation story in reality is that of the twelve members who resigned two of their terms had already expired and nine of them were going to expire in three months.
We all know the definition of insanity; I for one am open for something new- without expecting any overnight miracles.
__________________
"We gotta get as far away as we can!"
- Russell Casse, Independence Day
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01-19-2018, 08:19 AM
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#14
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Opelika, Alabama
Trailer: 2012 19
Posts: 130
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Please watch the Ken Burns series on the National Parks. It has a good history of the creation of the park system and the many battles fought over how this national treasures would be acquired and maintained. A few people made great personal sacrifices and twisted a lot of arms to get what we have today. A number of very rich people contributed millions to acquire much of the land. The issues of maintenance and use are not new
Graham
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01-19-2018, 08:23 AM
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#15
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Kent, Ohio
Trailer: 2017 21c Sold, 2023 Bigfoot 25RQ
Posts: 1,391
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You’ve drawn your conclusions, mine are quite different. See who gets appointed.
No more comments on this thread by me as it’s a slippery slope to to political clashes.
Thanks for the comments.
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01-19-2018, 10:25 AM
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#16
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Galesville, Wisconsin
Trailer: 2017 21 "Blue II" & 2017 Highlander XLE (previously 2010 17B "Blue" & 2008 Tacoma)
Posts: 4,232
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Whenever we travel in our National Parks, it is visitors from other countries who frequently remind me what national treasurers they all. No matter who I have met, the universal comment has been how magnificent they are and how lucky we are as a nation to have preserved them for everyone to be able to enjoy.
__________________
Eric (and Mary who is in no way responsible for anything stupid I post)
"Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance." George Bernard Shaw
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01-19-2018, 10:33 AM
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#17
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: SLO County, California
Trailer: 2014 Escape 21C 2019 Expedition
Posts: 5,213
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Thanks, Teddy & Gifford!
__________________
"We gotta get as far away as we can!"
- Russell Casse, Independence Day
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01-19-2018, 11:53 AM
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#18
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Oswego, New York
Trailer: 2017 Escape 21C, 2018 Ford F150
Posts: 5,370
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It might be worth looking at a couple of realities concerning the increases & budgets. First, the estimate is the increased fees will bring in $70 million additional dollars. Second, the Deferred Maintenance as of 2016 is $11.331 billion dollars. Third, the proposed budget for 2018 is $2,553 million dollars, a $297 million dollar decrease from 2017.
Somehow I don't see the additional $70 million dollars from the proposed fee increase even making up for the proposed 2018 decrease, let alone having much effect on the National Park System's operating budget, and, let alone do much for the deferred maintenance problems. Instead, It will hurt those that make one day stops at the parks with the increased fees, likely cut down the number of visitors, and make it more difficult for low income families.
Personally, I don't have to pay the increase since I have a Senior Pass, however even if I had to pay the full fare, I wouldn't complain since I can afford the increase, and far prefer going to our National Parks rather than Disney Land. Still, I don't believe the additional revenues will have much effect on the problems of the National Park System.
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01-19-2018, 11:58 AM
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#19
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Site Team
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Canyon Lake, Texas
Trailer: 2015 19 "Past Tents", 2021 F150 Lariat 2.7L EB
Posts: 10,222
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I have to agree with that. 70 mil won't put much of a dent in the shortfall overall. But, since 80 percent of the additional fees collected would be designated for that particular park, it will make some difference for that park.
Long term, the answer is people and their elected officials who believe National Parks are a national treasure, and who fund them as such.
__________________
"You can't buy happiness, but you can buy an RV. And that is pretty close."
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01-19-2018, 12:05 PM
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#20
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: North of Danbury, Wisconsin
Trailer: 2018 Escape 21C
Posts: 3,033
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It doesn't take a genius to spot the winners and looser in the Federal budget proposal . Some areas of the budget are scheduled for budget increases well beyond the rate of inflation and others are scheduled for funding cuts . From what I see and read , the NPS is not on the winning side.
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