Condensation

[thoer]

Two questions about the interior vinyl liner. We have the insulation package and the ceiling liner toward the rear of the trailer is not attached to the fiberglass in the middle- behind the air conditioner. I am wondering it this is due to glue letting go from the Reflectix and/or between it and the fiberglass or if this is how it is made? It is not a real noticeable sag but I can move it up about an inch before I can feel it contact the fiberglass. I am just hoping that it isn't an indication that that whole liner portion is going to continue to sag further?

Second - camping in the cool fall weather always brings out those moisture gremlins. I noticed some in our rearmost overhead compartment. When I felt around up there I found about a 1 - 1.5" strip where the fiberglass is uncovered by any insulation or liner. It is right where the liner should meet the front of the cabinet. It had quite a bit of condensation in this colder weather so for now I just stuffed some microfiber towels in to plug the gap. When I get home I will try to glue Refectix up there. Does anyone else have that gap up there?

Eric

[ChuckS]

To cut down the amount of condensation run the MaxFan on low day and night.
Chuck

[Donna D.]

Condensation is a big problem in all molded towables of any brand. Much less of a problem in an Escape with the extra insulation. I wouldn't use microfibre towels, that doesn't solve the initial problem. I'd replace the missing Reflectix. You can buy it at a big box hardware store. You can also leave your cabinet doors open, or slightly open. You may need air movement in those areas.

Has the sagging liner just started or have you just not noticed it before? Sagging liners are not normal! There again, I'd fix it. Right now you don't know "why" it's happened. You know it's not going to fix itself and it would bug me. YMMV.

[thoer]

Yep - already doing all those things and like I said, we are on the road so the microfiber towels are just a stopgap method to help absorb extra moisture and provide at least a minimum of insulation so the bare cold fiberglass is not exposed. I am planning to glue Reflectix up there when we get home. The Reflectix should work well as it is also a vapor/moisture barrier.

Sag - I am not sure about how long it has been that way. It is not really visually noticeable I only noticed it when I pushed up on it while doing something else. And given then design I currently have not idea how I could solve it. I will email Reace and see what he has to say. i am just curious if anyone else's trailer is that way and maybe the way the liner is molded it is not a problem.

[Glennrose]

We noticed the gap you are speaking of in the inside edge of all our upper cabinets, fairly soon after purchase. We haven't done anything about it yet assuming "Oh well, I guess it's just the way it comes." Because we live in wet Victoria and also cook inside the trailer, I am paranoid about condensation and am constantly checking for wetness. None there yet that I've noticed but I am very aware of the coldness that comes through those spaces.

A hidden place to also check when any condensation is noticed is above the windows under the valances. It's hard to get at, but on rainy days when we are trapped inside that is one of the first places I notice wetness. (Have to feel up and under the valance.) Because it's hidden I am worried that if not dealt with it will start to mildew, so I take the valances off to dry it there. The problem is mostly over the front side dinette windows in our 19. The condensation happens when it rains even though we run our Maxx Fan continuously. Not breathing is not an option

Haven't spoken to Reace yet because we tend to be procrastinators and figured it's just the way it comes. Condensation was always a big issue with our un-insulated Trillium; we had thought with this expensive fancy insulation package we could avoid that. Please let us know what he says!

[cpaharley2008]

I wonder if you could ventilate that space behind the valences. I noticed that if you leave the blinds up, you have less wetness on the windows, air is able to circulate. Perhaps allowing air to move up over the windows would eliminate the issue. I know using the condensate mat for the mattress allows air to circulate and the walls are no longer wet around the mattress. I guess we need to somehow keep the air from being trapped in order to deal with condensation, that means more vents in areas.

[amirie]

To reduce the condensation--maxx fan--air flow in or out?

[cpaharley2008]

drawing out, with another window cracked for a source,

[Jim Bennett]

Originally Posted by amirie

To reduce the condensation--maxx fan--air flow in or out?

It really does not matter, whatever is more comfortable for you, either way transfers the same amount of air out of the trailer. Like Jim, I would likely draw out there, that way you can crack whatever window you want for ventilation, over the bed if at the dinette, or reversed if you are in bed. With it pulling in at the fan, the area below would be cooler. So whichever works best for you, the key is to transfer a bit of the moist air out somehow.

[amirie]

We only have the two side windows at the rear that open-so would be the one at the foot of the bed probably..

Thanks

[thoer]

I haven't heard back from Reace yet (as we all know he is a VERY busy man) but have some more thoughts. The slight sag to the top liner is most likely something that is somewhat inevitable with the insulation package. My understanding is that the reflectix extra insulation is glued to the fiberglass and then the regular liner is glued to the reflectix. From using it in a variety of situations, I can confirm that reflectix has very little structural strength in terms of pulling its layers apart. So I think what has happened is that the reflectix layer has separated where our liner has the sag. The way the liner is molded, I am hoping that the sag will not proceed any further. Anyone else with insulation package have that slight sag? It is only noticeable if you push up on the liner.

As Glenn and Rosemary mentioned, there is a slight gap in the liner/insulation inside each cabinet. For folks who camp in warmer temps any of those gaps are pretty much meaningless and probably not worth doing anything about. Since we camp most often when nighttime temps are in the mid 30s to 40s, those gaps are worth closing up in my opinion. No matter how well we vent the trailer to get out excess humidity, in low outside temps, moisture is going to condense when the warm interior air hits cold surfaces. (That is why homes in cold climates need a vapor barrier on the inside.) Were the gap is large enough, like in the rear, I am going to glue in reflectix, where it is less that 1/4" I am going to caulk or may try a vapor barrier tape.

Eric

[RonS]

thoer.
I also have the sagging liner as you mentioned.
After looking at the liner gaps in the upper cabinets there appears to be no insulation under the liner. Don't know if that is normal on a 2009 17B or not.

[medora66]

Eric, I checked again today. No sag on ours, and no insulation gaps as far as I can tell (though I can only stand to be in the thing for a few minutes at a time given the LP alarm -- argh!)

[Ruthe]

I've read about condensation in a number of threads and spoke to Reese a bit about it today. Correct me if I'm wrong but general consensus seems to be that it's a problem when it's cold -- really cold, not just cool. I don't remember being aware of this when we camped with our airstream, but we didn't do winter camping. Do all trailers have condensation issues in cold weather?

[gbaglo]

If you breathe, the warm, moist air condenses on any surface that is cooler, and more so if the difference is great.

[Ruthe]

So the warmer the inside of the trailer when it is cold out, the greater the condensation?

[Dave Walter]

Originally Posted by Ruthe

So the warmer the inside of the trailer when it is cold out, the greater the condensation?

Humans give off moisture as they breathe. The warmer the inside of your trailer, the more moisture that can be accommodated (stored) in the air. As the temperature drops, the moisture is released from the air as condensation, and will collect on windows, walls, etc. The condensation will initiate on those areas of your camper where heat loss is greatest, like windows and walls. (It is kind of like sitting in your cold car in the winter and having the windows fog up. It is only when the heater is on and the car warms up that the windows will not fog with you in it).

[gbaglo]

No. The air you exhale is moist and warm. That's where the water is coming from.
But, if you crack a window, some of that moisture can escape. With the furnace going, there is an exchange of heat ( the warm air inside will be trying to heat the cold air until equilibrium is reached ) and moisture will exit the trailer.

I should have finished high school so I could explain more clearly and with confidence.

What Dave said.

[Ruthe]

So this would be the case with any trailer -- not just fiberglass -- It seems like a smaller trailer might have more issues with condensation -- we almost never used our furnace when we were in the higher elevations -- we just wore more clothes --

[Hokie Escape]

Condensation is one of the primary reasons to have "insulated" or double paned windows. The window inside the trailer remains warmer so decreases the chance of condensation.