Fact or Fiction, Parking on grass/dirt speeds frame rust.

[Patandlinda]

Originally Posted by thoer

My '94 Tacoma had a lot of rust on the frame. The local body shop sandblasted and sprayed on Rust Bullet for me.

I had researched and purchased the Rust Bullet as the body shop was not familiar with it. He asked me to bring the Tacoma back in a couple times so he could see how well it was working. He said he had not had a lot of luck with other products, but was impressed with how well the Rust Bullet was holding up to our Wisconsin road salt attacks. I sold it after a couple of years so I can't say how much longer it lasted than that.

Eric we have something in common . Also had a 1994 Toyota . Bought brand new and had for 12 years . Going to give the Rust Bullet a look see . Have lots of Rustolum because have iron fencing in front to attend to . Constance maintenance . Pat

[Patandlinda]

Originally Posted by grump

I've been using chassis saver on my utility trailer frame and on my '66 f100 and anything else I want to protect from rusting out. It's like Por15 in that it needs to be top coated because it has no UV protection. Even without a top coat it's good for 4-5 years, it just turns grey. If you use Por 15 or Chassis saver or that type rust coating when you put the lid back on blow some propane gas or some kind of inert gas in the can and then put a piece of plastic (saran wrap or half of a baggie) between the lid and the can. The product will stay usable longer.

Good information on storing cans ! Pat

[thoer]

Originally Posted by Patandlinda

Eric we have something in common . Also had a 1994 Toyota . Bought brand new and had for 12 years . Going to give the Rust Bullet a look see . Have lots of Rustolum because have iron fencing in front to attend to . Constance maintenance . Pat

I really liked that little Tacoma, it was a nice size. But its 4 cylinder engine sure wasn't up to towing.

[Ron in BC]

It's true that paint in a spray bomb is thin and a once or twice over with it doesn't put on as thick a coat as a brush. However sometimes, when painting somewhat convoluted objects spraying is the way to go. In the case of painting my car frame with Tremclad, I put on 3 wet coats with a contrasting coat as the second coat to ensure 100% coverage with each coat. Eight years on and no rust.

I think because sometimes, after the first coat making the object so much better, there's a temptation to leave it at one coat. In the case of paint I think more is better.

Ron

[Patandlinda]

Originally Posted by thoer

I really liked that little Tacoma, it was a nice size. But its 4 cylinder engine sure wasn't up to towing.

Eric , no not for towing but strong 4 cy engine on truck . When I sold it buyer wanted to check compression and we took to his mechanic . I changed oil regliously with Castrol . With 187,000 , mechanic couldn't believe the compression and inside valve train it was so clean . No gunk . Truck never gave me any trouble but in those days truck was small , but it was solid . Pat

[Patandlinda]

Originally Posted by Ron in BC

It's true that paint in a spray bomb is thin and a once or twice over with it doesn't put on as thick a coat as a brush. However sometimes, when painting somewhat convoluted objects spraying is the way to go. In the case of painting my car frame with Tremclad, I put on 3 wet coats with a contrasting coat as the second coat to ensure 100% coverage with each coat. Eight years on and no rust.

I think because sometimes, after the first coat making the object so much better, there's a temptation to leave it at one coat. In the case of paint I think more is better.

Ron

Pat

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Ron in BC

It's true that paint in a spray bomb is thin and a once or twice over with it doesn't put on as thick a coat as a brush. However sometimes, when painting somewhat convoluted objects spraying is the way to go.

That makes sense to me. Spraying can miss nooks and crevices, too, possibly by bridging over them. It's only a guess, but maybe spraying then brushing the sprayed paint into every corner would be ideal.

I have used an airless sprayer, and while paint viscosity is still important, it can handle reasonably thick paint. I used it to get a better-than-brushed finish on some metal cabinets, and it works for that. I would certainly consider it for a bare trailer (or sports car) frame, but the mess of spraying a frame under a trailer body doesn't appeal to me.

Originally Posted by Ron in BC

In the case of painting my car frame with Tremclad, I put on 3 wet coats with a contrasting coat as the second coat to ensure 100% coverage with each coat. Eight years on and no rust.

I think because sometimes, after the first coat making the object so much better, there's a temptation to leave it at one coat. In the case of paint I think more is better.

Excellent idea! I've heard that primers for household painting are available which change colour as they dry so that you can clearly see that the coat is complete, but simply changing paint colours seems like an effective approach which works with any paint (as long as it is available in more than one colour).

[FlaGman]

I have had good luck with Rust Destroyer, it is a rust converting primer available at Home Depot and most paint stores. It is much less expensive than the POR 15, and available in quarts, gallons or spray cans. I have not used it on a trailer, but have used it on architecture steel and wrought iron. Works great.

[MyronL]

Paint or no paint, a sure fire undercarriage environment promoting humidity promoting rust is leaving it parked on grass. Don't do it.

[freespirit]

Originally Posted by Ron in BC

I don't think the parking on gravel etc. has anything to do with rust on Escape frames. I think the black paint on new Escapes is paper thin, about the same as if the bare metal was given a once over with a spray bomb.

My frame showed unsightly rust within weeks. I've wire brushed a fair amount of it and applied two coats of Tremclad which is holding up just fine.

I really wish more protection was provided to the frame. If powder coating was an option I'd have gladly paid for it rather than having to repaint the whole frame from underneath.

Ron

that's disappointing to hear, for $30k+ trailers one might expect a very high quality paint job..ain't no paint expert but a 2 part polane/epoxy or powder coat might be good..what about that undercoating people up north put on the underside of their vehicles for use on the trailer frame....perhaps Escape should outsource the trailer frame to professionals.
will send an email to Escape, find out what the paint process is now...

[Rossue]

The frames are outsourced like many other items and Escape merely attach their fiberglass moulds onto them.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by freespirit

d..what about that undercoating people up north put on the underside of their vehicles for use on the trailer frame....perhaps Escape should outsource the trailer frame to professionals.

Although it may still be popular in more rust-prone areas, not many people here (which is definitely north as population distribution goes) use aftermarket rust treatments... although some new car dealers make some extra money suckering buyers into undercoating to go with the "paint protection". Most of the aftermarket products are oily coatings that require regular reapplication - not something most people would want on their trailer frame. Even the permanent coating is sticky and unpleasant to deal with (we had it on a Honda which we purchased used).

Originally Posted by Rossue

The frames are outsourced like many other items and Escape merely attach their fiberglass moulds onto them.

Yes, but - unlike most components - the frames are custom-built to Escape's specifications. They're not an off-the-shelf or catalog item. Of course the supplier is an experienced frame builder, so their expertise is contributed to the design and specification - I'm sure they don't just blindly build whatever is asked. If the finish needs to be changed (and it seems like that is an opportunity for improvement) then Escape Trailer Industries can specify that change and have the frame shop do it.

This is somewhat like Toyota's experience with the Tacoma frames (which were the subject of a recall due to excessive rust). It is a Toyota component, designed by Toyota, but constructed and supplied in complete finished form under contract by Dana.

[Patandlinda]

Originally Posted by FlaGman

I have had good luck with Rust Destroyer, it is a rust converting primer available at Home Depot and most paint stores. It is much less expensive than the POR 15, and available in quarts, gallons or spray cans. I have not used it on a trailer, but have used it on architecture steel and wrought iron. Works great.

Have used it too . Pretty good . Pat

[BRietkerk]

While traveling in Europe last year I noticed many travel trailers with galvanized steel frames. Boat trailers are built this way here. I expect there would be less welding and more bolts to build the frames with galvanized steel. It would be a nice upgrade to stop the rust problem.

[freespirit]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

Although it may still be popular in more rust-prone areas, not many people here (which is definitely north as population distribution goes) use aftermarket rust treatments... although some new car dealers make some extra money suckering buyers into undercoating to go with the "paint protection". Most of the aftermarket products are oily coatings that require regular reapplication - not something most people would want on their trailer frame. Even the permanent coating is sticky and unpleasant to deal with (we had it on a Honda which we purchased used).

good info..being from the south and not really having to deal much with snow/heavily de-iced roads...always thought that stuff they sprayed on the underside of vehicles for folks up north was something like that tough coating they spray coat as a bed liner in pickup beds...which in this camper's truck bed seems very durable, certainly more than paint...also used to use what was described as a 2 part Polane paint on steel in manufacturing..of course the paint process was rigorous and the steel had to be properly de-greased after fab/welding....paint job so tough it was difficult (but not impossible) to scratch even with a chisel.

[gbaglo]

My recollection of that undercoat was that it was like a thin layer of asphalt. Rocks would chip it and the water and road salt collected under it. Case of the cure being worse than the disease.

[gbaglo]

Had an inkling in the back of my mind that galvanized steel doesn't take well to paint. Could be a lot of trouble for little gain. Link to "The pain in painting galvanized steel".

PaintInfo | Caution Notes | Paint Colorants and Problems with Tints

[Iowa Dave]

Glenn
In the Parks we went away from steel picnic table frames and went to galvanized. We spec'd hot dip galvanized after all welding was done. Worked very well. When we had to paint galvanized, we used to use a product called galvagrip. Worked pretty well. By the time I retired most of our 1200 tables were galvanized frames, many with dipped tops coated with Plastisol, a rubbery thin plastic that was very durable. Park benches the same. Galvanized is very nasty to weld. Bad gasses
Dave

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by freespirit

...always thought that stuff they sprayed on the underside of vehicles for folks up north was something like that tough coating they spray coat as a bed liner in pickup beds...which in this camper's truck bed seems very durable, certainly more than paint...also used to use what was described as a 2 part Polane paint on steel in manufacturing..of course the paint process was rigorous and the steel had to be properly de-greased after fab/welding....paint job so tough it was difficult (but not impossible) to scratch even with a chisel.

The bedliner-type material would be somewhat similar to one of the layers of coating used in some areas of the body by vehicle manufacturers, and tougher paint than used on the visible panels is used as well. I think after the vehicle is finished is too late to get something like this to stick properly (due to those surface preparation issues), and in any event that's not what the aftermarket providers do.

Originally Posted by gbaglo

My recollection of that undercoat was that it was like a thin layer of asphalt. Rocks would chip it and the water and road salt collected under it. Case of the cure being worse than the disease.

Yes, that's the sticky stuff I mentioned. I dislike it for those reasons, and more.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by BRietkerk

While traveling in Europe last year I noticed many travel trailers with galvanized steel frames. Boat trailers are built this way here. I expect there would be less welding and more bolts to build the frames with galvanized steel. It would be a nice upgrade to stop the rust problem.

While galvanizing is sometimes used for frames welded together like an Escape frame, it's an expensive way to go. U-Haul uses a lot of galvanized frames; apparently it is worthwhile for durability in these heavily used rental units. Those European frames are typically bolted together from modular components of stamped sheet steel, and are built by major suppliers (such as AL-KO), who typically supply the complete chassis - frame, axles/suspension, and coupler.

There is one North American supplier of frames like this (bolted together from stamped components), but they are e-coated and powder-coated, not galvanized. It's the Ultra Frame from BAL (the same company which supplies stabilizing jacks to Escape).

Galvanized: can't reasonably weld it, can't readily paint it, can't even drill a hole to bolt on a bracket without causing rust to start at that point. It's a great way to avoid corrosion, as long as you never intend to modify the frame, and don't mind the appearance of the raw galvanized surface.