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Old 08-14-2014, 09:49 AM   #1
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Is Your Battery Really Charged?

I have found the mantra provided by Handy Bob regarding his recommendations on solar to be interesting and informative. I set out to test his statements with some comparison of battery charging methods. This is the link to Handy Bob’s Blog.

Now, if you only camp at locations with shore power or if you are never off the grid for more than a few days, stop here. This will bore you to death and it is not relevant to your camping style. Those left in the audience are welcome to read on and offer comments.

In this review I am comparing the battery charging results from the built in WFCO controller that Escape provides to a solar controller that I choose specifically for the ability to adjust the charge rate. My goal is to get batteries as full as possible as espoused by Handy Bob.

For batteries, I have the standard Escape installed Interstate GCX golf car batteries in a dual 6 volt configuration. In speaking with Interstate customer service and using information from their website we know these batteries have a capacity of 232 Ah. I am going to use this capacity to illustrate charge results from using the different methods of battery charging. Just a reminder here, we do not want to use more than 50% of our battery, so only 116 Ah is available. This Ah is amp hour or ampere hour. To give some examples, a LED light in my trailer draws .1 Ah, on the other extreme the 6.7 CuFt refrigerator takes 15 Ah to run at 12 volts. Charging an iPad takes .5 Ah and my sons CPAP machine uses .8 Ah. So think of this 116 Ah as the bucket of power that you can draw on when running on battery. Now we are going to fill the bucket.

I started with a battery that was about 60% charged, this was achieved by running the refrigerator on 12 volt. How did I measure this charge and other figures used in this comparison? I am using a Trimetric 2025 RV Battery Monitor and taking observations at certain points.

The built in Escape charger from WFCO is designed to charge at a voltage rate of 14.4, some have claimed that it never exceeds 13.4 volts. In my testing, the best I found was 13.7 volts. For the test I charged my depleted batteries (at 60%) for 24 hours using shore power and the WFCO controller. More time might have resulted in a greater charge but 24 hours seems like a reasonable time. After resting overnight the batteries read a charge of 13.1 volts, on the surface a very good voltage.

The next morning I connected a portable array of solar panels and began charging using a Blue Sky 30 solar controller that I set for the recommended Interstate charge rate of 15.3 volts. I monitored during the day and by mid afternoon the Blue Sky said “full”. Well not quite, it went into float/storage/trickle mode meaning it had applied 15.3 volts for 2 hours. This is the recommended charge rate for these batteries as stated on their web site. The reading from the Trimetric Battery Monitor showed that it had added 27.7 Ah to the battery.

From this we can conclude that the WFCO controller had charged the batteries to 204.3 Ah of their 232 Ah capacity. So you say we only had a drop of 88% in available power, this is wrong. Remember our 50% limitation on usage so in reality the WFCO only gave us 76% or 89.3 Ah available in our bucket.

What conclusion can you draw? If you are off grid, need to use the furnace, take lots of showers, run an inverter, or consume lots of power via electronic devices there are serious drawbacks to charging with the WFCO controller. In this scenario you are leaving home with only 75% of your available battery storage. Depending on your brand and type of battery(s) your results may vary, The Interstate batteries have the highest charge rates I have seen so they probably represent the extreme. However, they are the most commonly used.

What about the solar system that Escape provides? I do not have that system so I cannot test the results, one reason I do not have it is the Go Power controller, while better at charging than the WFCO controller, still does not meet the recommended charge rate from Interstate Batteries.
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Old 08-14-2014, 10:29 AM   #2
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I have the GoPower controller with the 95 watt panel, and a Trimetric battery monitor. When running without hookups, I have found that the built in LED strip battery indicator in the trailer & the % indicator on the GoPower controller will both show 100% while the Trimetric indicates that I am still down as much as 30 amp hours from full.

While using either the GoPower controller on solar or the WFCO converter (and the GoPower) while hooked up will eventually get the batteries up to full, it takes a loooong time! Getting the last 25 - 30 amp hours back into the batteries with either the GoPower or WFCO is a very slow process since the each go into the float mode long before they should, and as Paul noted, both provide a lower charge voltage than Interstate suggests for their batteries. After running the batteries down by 40 - 50 amp hours, under normal usage, it will often take a day or two with electrical hookups (and the solar panel) to get the batteries back to full.

Just as an additional note - I added a portable 160 watt panel with a built in controller to increase recovery time with poor result. While the portable panel is capable of providing 8.5 amps in full sun, it seems the built in GoPower panel & controller "fools" the controller in the portable panel and immediately puts it in the float mode, dropping the output current to an amp or two. Since there is no easy way to turn off the built in solar system, I can't be sure this is the problem, but when I put a heavy load on the system, both panels & controllers output their expected current. Now that I'm back home from my recent trip, I plan to bypass the portable controller & feed both panels into the GoPower controller. I'll post the result once done.
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Old 08-14-2014, 10:44 AM   #3
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What would be a better controller to use with ETI's 160 watt panel? In regards to the WFCO, from previous discussions and research it appears that there is no clear cut alternative in terms of performance at a reasonable price. We used to get 4+ days out of our dual 6V and we almost always dry camp. With our new one we are opting for the solar package and a single Group 29 12V battery. Is this a mistake? We are going to use a Vita Mix to make smoothie bfast, and charge cellphone/tablet. No TV. Will have an aftermarket 2500 Watt inverter installed as ETI at this time will only use a 1500 Watt.
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Old 08-14-2014, 11:15 AM   #4
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What would be a better controller to use with ETI's 160 watt panel?
I'd like to know as well.
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Old 08-14-2014, 11:26 AM   #5
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If you are looking for obtaining the recommended charge voltages that meet Interstate Batteries suggestions there are three solar controllers that I found that have the ability to change the set points to a high enough voltage. They are:

Blue Sky 30
Xantec C35 - gets close
Trimetric SC-2030

The goal I have would be 15.3 volts for two hours.

There may be others out there that I am not aware of.

I weighed going to a single Group 29 battery. The big issue is the size of the bucket you want. 232 Ah versus 95 Ah. I do not use an inverter so cannot plug that into an opinion.
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Old 08-14-2014, 12:13 PM   #6
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I think the single #29 is 120 Ah
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Old 08-14-2014, 01:01 PM   #7
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So a good combo would be a Trimetric SC-2030 solar controller along with a Trimetric 2030 battery monitor? Is there any advantage in getting sealed 6-volt batteries?
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Old 08-14-2014, 01:55 PM   #8
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I think the single #29 is 120 Ah
That's a bit high. Depending on which Interstate chart you use, the 29M is good for 97.5 to 105 Ah.

For comparison, another well respected marine deep cycle battery, the ACDelco M29MF is rated on the 20 hour standard at 105 Ah.

Using the best case on the Intertate and using the ACD spec, the most you can draw on these batteries is 5.25 amps for 20 hours, at which time the battery would be totally depleted, 10.5 volts.

Real world, and using 50% depletion as a nominal limit, you could draw 5.25 amps for 6 hours, or 2.63 amps for 20 hours. Of course with the lower draw and allowing for the Peukert effect, you could still be above the 50 % limit at 20 hours.
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Old 08-14-2014, 02:02 PM   #9
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It is what ETI advertises- group #29 -- 126 Ah- I'll have to look at mine to verify. I'm only concerned as to what I need for one night as the solar will refill me the next day.
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Old 08-14-2014, 02:10 PM   #10
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I put the Tristar-45 Solar System Controller in my 19'with great results. It is programmable and charges my 4 six volt Interstate batteries completely with my 2 permanantly installed solar panels. I also like the temperature compensation where charge rate is temperature monitored and the voltage supplied is even greater when the batteries are cold.
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Old 08-14-2014, 02:27 PM   #11
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It is what ETI advertises- group #29 -- 126 Ah- I'll have to look at mine to verify. I'm only concerned as to what I need for one night as the solar will refill me the next day.
Jim- 126 amp hrs is what my build sheet states. Called Interstate to help me be sure their Group 29 12V is suitable for our needs. Was told it is 115 AH. I am more curious if you are having good performance from yours and whether or not you use an inverter.
A tech from Interstate is going to call me back- my feeling is that the way we camp/where we camp(lot of sun) we should be fine with this battery with the 160 watt solar.
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Old 08-14-2014, 03:00 PM   #12
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FWIW, A couple weeks ago I installed the Trimetric SC-2030 and a Grape 160W panel which has pretty much the same specs as the Gopower 160. I went with the SC-2030 as opposed to the Blue Sky as it interfaces with the battery monitor giving just the one display to work with, they claim it is as good as an MPPT although it is PWM, both are 30A. So far I have only seen the controller go into the full 4 stages once, that was after I removed power from it and reapplied, need to do some more checks and call Bogart.

Two days ago in the early am I ran it down 60A to get to the 12.4v figure that the solar controller needs to initiate a full charge cycle. The voltage slowly climbs as the charge level gets higher, by the time the sun was low in the sky (perfectly clear day) it was still down 10A, it never got about 13.8 volts. Did not work as I envisioned, maybe I need more panel, max I saw was 8.4A. The next day it continued on bringing the charge back to 105%, which is what I set it for.

I also tried shore power to check the converter, max I saw was 30A output at 13.7V. Seemed to max out charging amperage wise at 30A which steadily drops as the day went on and the charge level rose. Didn't look at the finished charge level.

If I were suggesting which unit someone should buy, it would be the Blue Sky that Paul has, I don't think the kinks are worked out of the SC-2030 yet, they've only been available for a month. That's what I'll do Ii this one isn't up to snuff by the end of the season.
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Old 08-14-2014, 03:27 PM   #13
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Just got off the phone with a tech named Joe at Interstate. While there is a spec for Amp hours for the dual 6V (232), he said they don't really rate the 12V except to say it is about 60% of the Reserve Capacity (RC)- which on their chart is 210, thus 126 AH as is stated on ETI's build sheet.

More important to me was the discussion about the effective difference between the two and of course it gets down to individual usage/needs and other variables such as sunlight for solar charging. He made a good suggestion: get a hydrometer, test the new battery and use as a baseline. Then test it periodically to see how its going. Also, he said that running a battery down below 50% is only significant if its done repeatedly.
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Old 08-14-2014, 03:41 PM   #14
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Also, he said that running a battery down below 50% is only significant if its done repeatedly.
Well, that's a relief. Don't have to live in constant fear and anxiety.
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Old 08-14-2014, 03:48 PM   #15
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If running down the battery below 50% does have an adverse effect on the life of the battery, is there an automatic switch that will shut down high draw items to prevent this?
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Old 08-14-2014, 03:58 PM   #16
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If running down the battery below 50% does have an adverse effect on the life of the battery, is there an automatic switch that will shut down high draw items to prevent this?
My inverter alarms at 10.6 volts and then shuts down at 10 volts.
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Old 08-14-2014, 04:03 PM   #17
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The ETI provided inverter?
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Old 08-14-2014, 04:09 PM   #18
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The ETI provided inverter?
No my 2500 watt Vector inverter.
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Old 08-14-2014, 04:41 PM   #19
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Battery Voltage chart
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voltchart1.gif  
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Old 08-14-2014, 05:58 PM   #20
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Bob
Those numbers from the SC-2030 certainly do not seem correct. With that much panel and that model of solar controller you should see significantly better charge rates, if you have the sunshine. As you said it is a new controller, I did not purchase it only because it was not shipping when I needed it in April.

Earlier in the week I called Interstate Batteries to find their table of information on "State of Charge". This is the number of volts you find on your batteries two hours after you stop the charging process. I don't know if this is a good measurement or not. For instance, my WFCO build in charger produced a wonderful 13.1 volt reading the morning after a 24 hour charge, yet the next day, after adding another 29 Ah via the solar controller the batteries only showed 12.9 volts.

I think using volts to measure batteries is a bit like nailing Jello to a tree.

At any rate, this is a table provided by Interstate Batteries for the dual 6 volt GC2-XHD's. It is significantly higher in volts.

Interstate Battery "State of Charge"
100% 12.84
90% 12.72
80% 12.64
70% 12.56
60% 12.48
50% 12.20

This example points out one of my complaints about the Trimetric 2025 RV Battery Monitor. It only shows one place to the right of the decimal point.

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