Necessity to drain fresh water

[C&G in FL]

Originally Posted by Ian and Sue

As a Licensed Water Operator I appreciate your confidence in us! As one who used to provide technical assistance to Licensed Water Operators I think in some cases it is a bit naïve. Also taste is not the best indicator of water safety. I would instead first look at the overall maintenance and condition of the campground. Is everything jury rigged? Is general maintenance lacking? The person operating the campground is often the water operator too...you be the judge. Second look at the water pressure...is it low? Does it vary quite a bit? These are indicators of problems and backflow conditions(and contamination) can be real in these situations. Finally if you are going to leave the water in your tank for extended periods of time or are not sure about the quality of the water you just put in your tank...add a bit of chlorine. 0.3 - 0.5 parts per million is plenty to protect you. How much is that you ask Bleach is STRONG AND NASTY.....MORE IS NOT BETTER!!! If you put in a capful of bleach in a full tank that is more than enough. For 30 gal to get 0.3 PPM you need to add 0.6 ml(that is 1/8 of a teaspoon) of 6% household bleach

Bottled water from the store is not necessarily better. Think about it...what does bacteria need to grow? Warm, wet and time...what is it like on the grocery store shelf

I never said or claimed taste is an indicator of safety. And having spent 20+ years working with licensed operators and rural water association circuit riders, and seeing the crud that comes out of pigged water mains I trust my own judgement as to what is safe to drink as well as what constitutes a well maintained infrastructure and treatment procedure. But if the safest, most purified water doesn’t taste good, I’m not going to drink it.

[bdornbush]

We live in earthquake and wildfire country, so we keep our tank full at all times. We never know when we might need it in a hurry. The trailer is part of my emergency preparedness plan. And we needed it this past October. Check out wildfires in Santa Rosa, CA, if you need a refresher on how fast things can change. I always empty the tank and refill before a trip so it is fresh. I know some will cringe but I don't sanitize every time I empty and fill, and so far, no problems with taste or anything worse. My city's water is carefully monitored and controlled and that is the only water I put in the tank.

[thoer]

Originally Posted by sclifrickson

Eric - What disinfectant do you use?

....

Usually One-Step - an oxygen based sanitizer.

[tractors1]

When done camping, I always crack the faucets and fresh water drain open a bit and let the tank drain on the way home. Figure the rock and roll helps the system drain.

[Bobbito]

I like Ian's approach of adding a small amount of bleach to the tank before short term storage if you drink the water. Same for if the water quality is iffy. I read on another trailer forum that some people regularly add a bit of bleach to their tank even while using the trailer and then filter the water at the tap end through a charcoal filter to remove the chlorine. Of course charcoal filters are breeding grounds for bacteria and need to be changed regularly.

If I drank my trailer's water I would definitely be regularly adding bleach. I know from experience and from testing my blood in our lab that my immune system isn't great so that is one reason I would go to the trouble of using bleach regularly. Another reason is the gross out factor. Having monitored the bacterial growth in a high quality water purification system I have just seen too much. You don't normally taste the bacteria or other microbes and most people don't get sick from them.

Bob K

[gbaglo]

Bob - doesn't the water in the Lower Mainland already contain chlorine? I can sure smell it from the tap from time to time.

[gharper]

Using chlorine to decontaminate water systems is mostly dependent on chlorine concentration and contact time:https://www.cdc.gov/safewater/effect...pathogens.html

What bleach you choose also matters as the amount of sodium hypochlorite varies form about 3% to 7.4% and some household bleach products contain fabric protectants that can negatively impact killing microoganisms. I use Clorox Disinfecting Bleach that has 7.4% sodium hypochlorite.

Some references recommend higher concentrations or contact times for steriizing storage containers than just the water. Particularly containers with biofilms, high amount particulate matter and surfaces to clean.

If you look at the link above you need 131 mLs to decontaminate a 115 mL water tank to kill crytosporium parvum with a contact time of 90 minutes. This is the one of the highest concentration and time dependent organism to kill.

I cook and drink from our tank and sterilize it twice a year. If you don't trust your system you can always boil the water for several minutes and place in a jug in the fridge.

[Ian and Sue]

Originally Posted by gharper

Using chlorine to decontaminate water systems is mostly dependent on chlorine concentration and contact time:https://www.cdc.gov/safewater/effect...pathogens.html

What bleach you choose also matters as the amount of sodium hypochlorite varies form about 3% to 7.4% and some household bleach products contain fabric protectants that can negatively impact killing microoganisms. I use Clorox Disinfecting Bleach that has 7.4% sodium hypochlorite.

Some references recommend higher concentrations or contact times for steriizing storage containers than just the water. Particularly containers with biofilms, high amount particulate matter and surfaces to clean.

If you look at the link above you need 131 mLs to decontaminate a 115 mL water tank to kill crytosporium parvum with a contact time of 90 minutes. This is the one of the highest concentration and time dependent organism to kill.

I cook and drink from our tank and sterilize it twice a year. If you don't trust your system you can always boil the water for several minutes and place in a jug in the fridge.

Careful there are two different ways of using chlorine. One is a shock chlorination situation...this is what you do when you sanitize a water tank...DO NOT DRINK THIS Chlorine levels are typically 50 to 100 parts per million. During sanitation you either increase concentration or contact time to get the job done. The EPA limits chlorine in drinking water to 4 PPM max. The second use of chlorine is as a disinfectant this is what your public water system puts in the water you get at your tap. This you can drink and is between 0 and 4 PPM.

[Ian and Sue]

Originally Posted by C&G in FL

I never said or claimed taste is an indicator of safety. And having spent 20+ years working with licensed operators and rural water association circuit riders, and seeing the crud that comes out of pigged water mains I trust my own judgement as to what is safe to drink as well as what constitutes a well maintained infrastructure and treatment procedure. But if the safest, most purified water doesn’t taste good, I’m not going to drink it.

Sorry I misunderstood. I too have been in the water business for over 25 years and try to get good info out there instead of the often held misconceptions. Yeah good maintenance of water systems and campers is the key! And yes taste does count.

I am glad you got all the help from Rural Water...They do great work and I was fortunate enough to be a trainer for them for 5 or 6 years. Great job and it was rewarding to help new people to enter this important field with the proper mindset.

[Ron in BC]

Originally Posted by gbaglo

Bob - doesn't the water in the Lower Mainland already contain chlorine? I can sure smell it from the tap from time to time.

We have some of the world's best water from the tap. Closed reservoirs and snow runoff, not to mention the new filtration plant go a long way in making great tap water.

Yes, there is some treatment but I suspect that it's far less than many other cities. As I understand it the level varies. If there's a huge mudslide and the water has some turbidity they increase the level. I think that it also depends on distance as it dissipates over distance.

I remember being at my aunt's in San Francisco as a teenager. I went to the tap with a glass and she was horrified. We don't drink water from the tap. After I smelled it I understood why.

Ron

[Patandlinda]

Originally Posted by Ron in BC

We have some of the world's best water from the tap. Closed reservoirs and snow runoff, not to mention the new filtration plant go a long way in making great tap water.

Yes, there is some treatment but I suspect that it's far less than many other cities. As I understand it the level varies. If there's a huge mudslide and the water has some turbidity they increase the level. I think that it also depends on distance as it dissipates over distance.

I remember being at my aunt's in San Francisco as a teenager. I went to the tap with a glass and she was horrified. We don't drink water from the tap. After I smelled it I understood why.

Ron

Once stayed at a hotel in Victoria . The only time I was able to drink from the sink in the hotel Was great tasting water . Won't drink or cook with the water at home . The drinking and cooking water goes to a water distiller and filters . The water we bring when we go camping too. Pat

[gbaglo]

Originally Posted by Patandlinda

Once stayed at a hotel in Victoria . The only time I was able to drink from the sink in the hotel

The same city that dumps untreated sewage into the ocean. Famed home of "Mr. Floatie".

https://www.google.ca/search?q=mr.+f...jphty59R3mjiM:

[Patandlinda]

Originally Posted by gbaglo

The same city that dumps untreated sewage into the ocean. Famed home of "Mr. Floatie".

https://www.google.ca/search?q=mr.+f...jphty59R3mjiM:

Don't know about that , it was 25+ years ago . Ron's post just reminded me about the hotel . I think we do the same here too. Pat

[War Eagle]

There is a town in West Alabama that's municipal water supply smelled of sulfur so badly you did't want to even open a water tap, much less take a shower in the stuff. When I would have to stay over night there for work-related things, I'd take a jug of water from home along with me (this was before the bottled water craze) for brushing my teeth.

[Bobbito]

Glen, our Lower Mainland water definitely arrives at our homes with sufficient chlorine. The problem is that the chlorination dissipates due to evaporation and if exposed to light that also hastens its breakdown. (Fresh water tanks that aren't exposed to light would have an advantage here. i.e. Escape foam insulation)

I don't believe that our tap water has sufficient bleach concentration to be effective after sitting in your fresh water tank for weeks. And if left in the tank after a trip I would bet there would be no chlorination activity left. If you fill up with water from some of the small town sources on your trip you introduce another risk factor.



Bob K

[gbaglo]

I should be OK. I don't recall ever drinking water from the tap.

[Bobbito]

Glen, I thought you would drink anything on tap?

Bob K

[C&G in FL]

There is a simple solution to all of this. It has been hypothesized that the Pilgrims landed in Plymouth rather than their intended destination of Virginia because they needed potable water. Apparently, they ran out of beer, carried on sailing vessels in those days because the alcoholic content prevented microbial growth. Thus, the simple solution to any concerns about water safety lies in relying on beer instead, even if it is a little less than ideal than water for brushing of one’s teeth!

[padlin]

Can someone boil this all down to specific recommendations for the average camper?

If one wants to be able to drink water from the campsites water hookup, and also to use the on board water tank for both short and long term trips.

Looks like I need an in line filter, better then the Camco generic, and I need to continually treat the water I put in the fresh tank along with general sanitizing after home storage.

We try to use store bought gallons, but at over 2 gallons a day, it get unwieldy at times.

[Ian and Sue]

Originally Posted by padlin

Can someone boil this all down to specific recommendations for the average camper?

If one wants to be able to drink water from the campsites water hookup, and also to use the on board water tank for both short and long term trips.

Looks like I need an in line filter, better then the Camco generic, and I need to continually treat the water I put in the fresh tank along with general sanitizing after home storage.

Here are my recommendations:
Sanitize water system in camper using the directions in the owner's manual at the beginning of the season or anytime the camper sits for more than a month.

If using water from a source you can trust, drink from the tap.

If the campground is on it's own water and general campground maintenance is lacking, water pressure is low (less than 20psi) or pressure varies wildly. I would not trust this source of water. Fill some jugs from your tank and put in the fridge for drinking and cooking.

If using water you are not sure about or your camper is going to sit for a week or two...add a small amount(1/8 - 1/2 teaspoon) of household bleach(no scents, additives or thickeners) and fill the tank. Drink from the tap.

Bottled water is expensive and unnecessary. Fill your tank from a good municipal source and drink from the tap, think of it as a big bottle! Most bottled water is municipal water anyway.

Filters If you are worried about taste or chemicals use a filter. If you are worried about bacteria(the most likely and worrisome) 98% of the filters will do nothing. You need reverse osmosis to take care of the little bugs. Use chlorine.