Required change to the winterization instructions? - Page 2 - Escape Trailer Owners Community

Go Back   Escape Trailer Owners Community > Escape Tech > Maintenance, Winterizing and Routine Care
Click Here to Login
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 11-12-2017, 11:05 AM   #11
Senior Member
 
thoer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Galesville, Wisconsin
Trailer: 2017 21 "Blue II" & 2017 Highlander XLE (previously 2010 17B "Blue" & 2008 Tacoma)
Posts: 3,929
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpaharley2008 View Post
I sent an email to Reace on Thursday, but they were closed Friday, maybe he can provide some insight next week?
Good idea.

I am wondering if this has proved to be an actual problem for freezing, or a potential problem. Has anyone confirmed that water is actually being retained in this pipe section by disconnecting it from the hot water heater?
__________________

__________________
Eric (and Mary who is in no way responsible for anything stupid I post)

SAE Towing Standard "Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance." George Bernard Shaw
thoer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2017, 06:24 AM   #12
Site Team
 
cpaharley2008's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: York, Pennsylvania
Trailer: 2016 2ndGen Escape 19' PRAIRIE SCHOONER pulled by 2014 Ram Hemi/8sp
Posts: 13,486
I got to thinking about this water heater pressure valve on the inlet supply side and it dawned on me that any freezing in that supply line from any residual liquid will release the pressure and enter the heater. Exactly opposite of the fresh water line where the water is held captive by the vacuum created, here there is no vacuum as the water heater is empty! So there should not be any freezing issue. Just my thoughts at 6:15 in the am.
__________________

__________________
Jim
The two most important days in your life are the day you were born and the day you find out why………..Mark Twain
cpaharley2008 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2017, 07:30 AM   #13
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Notasulga, Alabama
Trailer: 2010 EggCamper (#083); 2017 Escape 21 (#053); 2016 F-150 5.0L 4x4
Posts: 1,100
Quote:
Originally Posted by thoer View Post
Good idea. I am wondering if this has proved to be an actual problem for freezing, or a potential problem. Has anyone confirmed that water is actually being retained in this pipe section by disconnecting it from the hot water heater?
I blew out the water lines on our 21' last week, but part of my blow-out procedure included blowing out that section of cold water line while the water heater anode was removed and the two valves were set back to the normal water flow position - specifically to blow out that little section of line that is isolated when in bypass mode. Afterward, I disconnected the water line from the check valve, and as expected after the blow-out, there was no water remaining in that section of line.
On another note, I noticed a screw cap on the bottom of our galley sink P-trap. Unscrew the cap, let the water in the P-trap drain into a small container, and wallah, the sink drain is empty and winterized.
War Eagle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2017, 07:32 AM   #14
Site Team
 
cpaharley2008's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: York, Pennsylvania
Trailer: 2016 2ndGen Escape 19' PRAIRIE SCHOONER pulled by 2014 Ram Hemi/8sp
Posts: 13,486
Yes, there is one on my 19 also, something new.
__________________
Jim
The two most important days in your life are the day you were born and the day you find out why………..Mark Twain
cpaharley2008 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2017, 08:42 AM   #15
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Seattle, Washington
Trailer: 17b - March 2017 Towed by: Volvo XC90 2017
Posts: 254
There seems to be a lot of confusion as to why I think there would be water in that section of pipe. Let me go step by step to explain why there should logically be water in there.

Let’s start conceptually with a water system that is fully pressurized, and that has water in every pipe and inside the water heater. If your first step in the winterization process is to isolate the water heater by turning the bypass valves, then the water sitting in the pipe that goes from the lower bypass valve to the water heater can’t go back through the bypass valve, since the bypass valve is closed in that direction. The only direction that the water could potentially go is into the water heater, but there is a check valve in that direction now. Check valves have a spring that holds the valve closed unless there is some pressure applied to open the check valve. For more details, here is a post which shows the internals of check valves Repairing the city water check valve . Since the bypass valve has isolated this section of pipe from the pump, even if the pump is later turned on, there is no pressure applied to the water within that section of pipe, therefore the check valve is never opened, and the water has no way to escape.

Later, when that pipe freezes, a little bit of water should go through the check valve as the water in the pipe expands creating pressure in the pipe, however the freezing process tends to start by forming ice at the walls of the pipe before the interior, so the check valve could freeze shut before the water at the interor of the pipe transitions to solid form.

Here is a graph of the density vs temperature of water:
https://qph.ec.quoracdn.net/main-qim...098da4687526f3
paulk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2017, 09:53 AM   #16
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Notasulga, Alabama
Trailer: 2010 EggCamper (#083); 2017 Escape 21 (#053); 2016 F-150 5.0L 4x4
Posts: 1,100
For those who haven't noticed it, here's a photo of the screw cap drain on the bottom of the galley sink P-trap in our 2017 21'. Easy way to winterize that one.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg DSC09679.jpg (215.9 KB, 6 views)
War Eagle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2017, 10:21 AM   #17
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Burlington Twp., New Jersey
Trailer: 2010 Escape 19
Posts: 1,132
Quote:
Originally Posted by War Eagle View Post
For those who haven't noticed it, here's a photo of the screw cap drain on the bottom of the galley sink P-trap in our 2017 21'. Easy way to winterize that one.
Great to point this out. I suspect the use of this screw cap drain goes back many years across all models. We have one on our 2010 19. Just used it the other day when taking apart the plumbing to fix a small leak at the sink drain collar. You should have seen the crud that came out of that trap. The winterizing would double as preventative maintenance to get any of the heavier bits of stuff out that sit in the trap. Probably would never cause a problem, but can't hurt to get it out when winterizing.
rubicon327 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2017, 11:35 AM   #18
Site Team
 
cpaharley2008's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: York, Pennsylvania
Trailer: 2016 2ndGen Escape 19' PRAIRIE SCHOONER pulled by 2014 Ram Hemi/8sp
Posts: 13,486
Suppose one turns on the pump, opens a spigot, and runs it until the pipes are empty and spitting air? Then isolates the water heater for winterization by turning the valves and fill the water lines with antifreeze via the pump?
Also it would appear that valve is open when there is no pressure, thus when hot water is drawn, the pressure drops and then cold water is allowed to enter?
__________________
Jim
The two most important days in your life are the day you were born and the day you find out why………..Mark Twain
cpaharley2008 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2017, 01:07 PM   #19
Member
 
gmchamplin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Haslet, Texas
Trailer: 2017 5.0 TA
Posts: 90
Any answer from Reace yet?
__________________
Gary & Peggy
2017 5.0 TA "Wandrin' Star"
2016 GMC Canyon Duramax
gmchamplin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2017, 02:36 PM   #20
Site Team
 
cpaharley2008's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: York, Pennsylvania
Trailer: 2016 2ndGen Escape 19' PRAIRIE SCHOONER pulled by 2014 Ram Hemi/8sp
Posts: 13,486
Just got off the phone with Escape, Jeff Busch, parts manager called me back in response to my email. The brass valve is a one way valve to prevent higher pressure escaping the hot water tank and damaging the pump. When you open the water heater pressure valve and remove the anode, any water in that line will siphon out into the water heater, it is one way only to prevent backwash and pressure into the water system from the water heater. So in reality there is no change to the winterization, the water heater anode removal takes care of this valve and any residual liquid left.
__________________

__________________
Jim
The two most important days in your life are the day you were born and the day you find out why………..Mark Twain
cpaharley2008 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off






» Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:27 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright 2012 Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.