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Old 10-30-2014, 09:13 PM   #1
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Winterized BlackJack today....

Here are my observations. In following ETI's instructions using compressed air I opened all the faucets and turned on the compressor, problem was I forgot to remove the sink cover and found about 1/2 gallon water on the floor. Also the compressor will not operate with the faucets open, you need back pressure for the compressor to build up pressure. Inside again to turn off the faucets, remove the sink cover and then open close each side to eliminate any remaining water, did the bath sink and toilet. I then removed the fresh water screen and pushed in the relief valve. All is good except I still have water in my line from the fresh water hookup feeding to the pump, everything past the pump is empty. So I hooked up my E-Z Winterizing set up, put the hose in the gal of antifreeze and turned on the pump. About 1/2 disappeared into the lines. Opened each faucet until anti freeze comes out, flushed the toilet and now my tanks are getting some antifreeze as well as my P traps. But there is still clear water in the line from the rear of the trailer to the bypass valve.
Went downstairs and found my hand pump, hooked up to the fresh water intake and opened another gallon and started pumping. However with the hand pump there can not be any pressure, went inside and opened the sink faucet and put in a container in the sink. I pumped about 1/2 the bottle, still clear water in the supply line. Emptied the container back into the antifreeze and repeated, finally the pink stuff started to appear in the clear line feeding the pump. Hooked up the E-Z winterizing hose, turn the valve, turned on the pump and filled the lines again.
I went outside, disconnected the hand pump, hooked up the air compressor, inside to put a container in the sink and started the compressor again, set at 25 psi. Went inside and opened all the lines, captured most of the antifreeze and blew out the lines again.
All in all, about 2 hours and a little over a gallon of antifreeze consumed which is now in the P traps or waste tanks. The other gallon can be used to flush the toilet in winter time use either via the E-Z- winertizing set up or just pour down the toilet. Remember to release that little valve in the fresh water fill, behind the screen and watch out, it spits back.
In retrospect, the low water drain install may have taken care of the water in the line feeding the pump, or a slight more tilt of the entire trailer towards the front may have let gravity feed that water thru the pump, Just a heads up for others when they winterize their 21's. I'd request ETI to put in low point drains right before the water heater in the 21, that should eliminate both the rear fresh water fill line issue as well as draining the front lines.
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Old 10-30-2014, 09:18 PM   #2
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Winterizing... let's all head SOUTH

Seriously Jim, thanks for the info. I'd appreciate if everyone winterizing would give us all such detailed steps. It seems all the ETI builds have enough differences, the more information the better.
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Old 10-30-2014, 09:53 PM   #3
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Thanks Jim,

I just realized that I've been sliding around under our 19" but I never saw low point drains. I just checked the Manual and find no mention of it.

In the Pacific Northwest we can usually simply drain the low point and wait to see how cold it gets, then blowing out the remainder if there is a long freeze. All our other trailers had low point drains ... another thing for my to-do list!

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Old 10-30-2014, 09:59 PM   #4
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Winterizing... let's all head SOUTH
OK by me Donna. Texas has plenty of room.
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Old 10-30-2014, 10:16 PM   #5
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I sure am glad for having the old style low-point drain. It took me 1/2 the time to do it, as it took Jim just to write that post.
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Old 10-30-2014, 11:10 PM   #6
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I sure am glad for having the old style low-point drain. It took me 1/2 the time to do it, as it took Jim just to write that post.
Where is the low point drains located? I'll copy it.

I was puzzled by yellow/greenish pieces of square tape (3/4"x3/4") over what feels like a hole with caulk in it. I have 5 holes with tape and 5 that can drain. The ones that drain are a little bigger then a pencil and none with screen or anything to keep insects from flying in.

Could any of those be for the low point drain that's not there?

Mel
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Old 10-30-2014, 11:53 PM   #7
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Hi Mel,
I am with you I have aften thought the same thing about insects getting into the weep holes. You would think that the holes should be covered by a screen
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Old 10-31-2014, 12:36 AM   #8
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I don't think the newer 19's have a low-point drain.
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Old 10-31-2014, 12:44 AM   #9
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I just realized that I've been sliding around under our 19" but I never saw low point drains. I just checked the Manual and find no mention of it.
The manual may not mention low-point drains because you don't have them. See the Low point drain topic, especially post #13.
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Old 10-31-2014, 07:06 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Klem View Post
Where is the low point drains located? I'll copy it.

I was puzzled by yellow/greenish pieces of square tape (3/4"x3/4") over what feels like a hole with caulk in it. I have 5 holes with tape and 5 that can drain. The ones that drain are a little bigger then a pencil and none with screen or anything to keep insects from flying in.

Could any of those be for the low point drain that's not there?

Mel
Those are weep holes to allow any water/condensation that does get inside to drain. There is a trough around the perimeter and the floor is elevated by design, thus water will collect, if any and these holes allow the drainage. I opened all my taped holes but Reace said it wasn't necessary. The low point drains have a faucet at the end, identical to your fresh tank drain, so if you do not see more than the one on the fresh tank then no more. I know ETI stopped when they changed molds sometime between my 2012 and 2014 models.
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Old 10-31-2014, 08:49 AM   #11
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On our 2008 5.0 Classic, the low point drain has a nylon screw in plug. We really like having it. Our previous Scamp did not.
We just winterized our Escape this week. It was pretty easy. Made sure the hot water bypass was set to prevent water into the heater. Ran the hot water heater pump a few seconds to clear out any water there but we hadn't used it this season so didn't expect and didn't get any water out. We also opened the fresh water tank drain but since we hadn't used that either, it was empty.
Opened the low point drain and all the faucets. Tilted the trailer nose way up and left it for a few minutes. Then way down for a few minutes. Got some water in each direction. Once it stopped dripping we closed the low point drain.

Then hooked up the compressor and blew out the system with all the faucets and outside shower open and operated the toilet several times. Got a good deal of water out especially from the toilet.

Next we used a Camco hand pump system to pump antifreeze through the city water inlet out through all the faucets, the toilet and the outside shower. This was very convenient and easy.

We then poured extra antifreeze into each drain (sinks and shower) for the p traps and about a half a jug into the black water tank.

Having read the discussion about anti-freeze 'slush' we checked our bottle and it said it might turn to slush at 0 degrees. We don't usually get that low, but we might leave our faucets open in that circumstance just to be safe and allow some space for slushy expansion...if we remember. All in all we used 1 gallon of antifreeze and it took about 1/2 hour. Having two people working on it speeds up the process and makes it a lot easier!
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Old 10-31-2014, 09:09 AM   #12
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My 2013 19 does have a low-point drain... As FMLNM says, it's a nylon screw-in plug. Situation right beside the drain plug on the fresh water tank (which puts it pretty much right under the pump and water heater).
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Old 10-31-2014, 09:33 AM   #13
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The one time I tried blowing after a thorough draining using the low-point drain, I got not much more than a spittle of water, not enough to cause any damage. Maybe it is how my lines are run? So I have for the last 5 winters skipped blowing out the lines, or adding any antifreeze to them. I just displace the water in the traps with the antifreeze. Of course, this only works with the 2013 and older trailers.

It takes me less than 10 minutes to winterize.
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Old 10-31-2014, 10:26 AM   #14
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The one time I tried blowing after a thorough draining using the low-point drain, I got not much more than a spittle of water, not enough to cause any damage. Maybe it is how my lines are run? So I have for the last 5 winters skipped blowing out the lines, or adding any antifreeze to them. I just displace the water in the traps with the antifreeze. Of course, this only works with the 2013 and older trailers.

It takes me less than 10 minutes to winterize.
I also get very little water from anything after using the low point drain, however I still use air pressure to finish the process. I made an air line to city water adapter so I can leave the compressor running while going from faucet to faucet. Like Jim, the only place I use antifreeze is in the drains.

One interesting note - when I drained the water heater, the anode was down to just wire. I checked it before I left on my trip last October, and there was about 3/4 left. A good reason to pull the plug on the water heater...
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Old 10-31-2014, 10:57 AM   #15
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One interesting note - when I drained the water heater, the anode was down to just wire. I checked it before I left on my trip last October, and there was about 3/4 left. A good reason to pull the plug on the water heater...
That sounded unusual to me, but in reading further, it seems that places like Camping World recommend that the anode be checked every 3 months -- so not unusual at all.
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Old 10-31-2014, 11:10 AM   #16
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I don't have the low point drain on my 2013 19'. I do blow out the lines with air and get a fair amount of water (more than the spittle that Jim B reports). This year, took about 15 minutes to winterize including draining hot water tank, blowing out freshwater lines with air, and putting rv antifreeze down the drains.

When winterizing, don't forget to drain the water from your external shower hoses.

If using air to blow out your lines, make sure to buy or make one of these:

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Old 10-31-2014, 11:43 AM   #17
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[QUOTE=cpaharley2008;71548] I opened all my taped holes but Reace said it wasn't necessary. [QUOTE]

Thanks Jim, (and all) you are a wealth of info!

Have you put a screen on your weep holes? Bees seem to find little homes like that around here.

Do you understand why they were drilled and then taped over? Is that so we can check them occasionally?

In a heavy rain I would expect some water to spray up into those holes which will result in rot over time. I am thinking a screwing in a small drain plug (or screen).

Are you folks leaving yours open (any clever ideas)?

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Old 10-31-2014, 11:57 AM   #18
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Is it possible to retro-fit a low point drain on a 21? Our 17b had a low point drain, and I felt that it eased the winterizing process, and gave me more confidence that I had eliminated water in the supply lines.

The 21 doesn't have a low point drain, but if I could figure out a way to add one, especially with the foam on the bottom, I would sure like to give it a try.

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Old 10-31-2014, 11:57 AM   #19
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[QUOTE=Klem;71568][QUOTE=cpaharley2008;71548] I opened all my taped holes but Reace said it wasn't necessary.
Quote:

Thanks Jim, (and all) you are a wealth of info!

Have you put a screen on your weep holes? Bees seem to find little homes like that around here.

Do you understand why they were drilled and then taped over? Is that so we can check them occasionally?

In a heavy rain I would expect some water to spray up into those holes which will result in rot over time. I am thinking a screwing in a small drain plug (or screen).

Are you folks leaving yours open (any clever ideas)?

Mel K
There is nothing to rot, no wood gets wet, if you feel around the perimeter of your trailer inside your hatch cover you can feel the depression. The floor is encapsulated with the fiberglass. No worries, nothing to do, maintenance free.
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Old 10-31-2014, 12:04 PM   #20
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Leon,
I would assume you would do more harm than good, the grey tank is in that area I mentioned plus all that foam. I'd try tilting the trailer like mentioned above and pump it out.
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