WINTERIZING: updated Oct. 29, 2013

[gbaglo]

It is safe for the purpose for which it is intended - protecting RV water systems from freezing, without toxicity. Some people claim they can taste it even after draining and flushing the plumbing, which you need to do before using the water for drinking. It is safe.

[thoer]

Since they can put it in food, I don't think I'm going to worry about it in my lines after my spring water lines cleaning,
1 - flush lines with water, 2- sanitize with bleach solution, 3 - flush with water until no bleach smell or taste is left.

I've never even tasted a hint of left over antifreeze, but then I eat a lot of hot spicy food

IMO you are at a lot more danger if you don't do a good job sanitizing your water system, than from the PPM (parts per million) of antifreeze left in properly flushed lines.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by gharper

... small amounts have been shown to cause severe illness: "Propylene glycol toxicity: a severe iatrogenic illness in ICU patients receiving IV benzodiazepines. Wilson KC, Reardon C, Theodore AC, Farber H, Chest. 2005;128(3):1674".

The readily available abstract does not give amounts, but this was about using propylene glycol as a solvent for drugs given intravenously for three months. That seems likely to me to be far more hazardous than drinking a trace in water. I'm not concerned, but that's an individual judgement.

[padlin]

Like Thoer, part of my trailer opening in the spring is sanitizing the water system with bleach, certainly can't taste antifreeze when the process is complete.

[FMLNM]

Originally Posted by thoer

Bob I do about the same thing, except I just burp the pump a couple times at the end to empty it and then use the low point drain and all the taps open to drain our most of the remaining antifreeze rather than blowing it out again. Your way may be my next.

Finding a new full bottle of antifreeze frozen into thick slush last year made me wary of leaving it in. And now with so much of it being ethanol, I try to drain it out of they grey and black lines so that the ethanol isn't sitting against the valves all winter.

So should one leave all the faucets and drains open after draining, blowing out and then running antifreeze through them? Wouldn't this prevent an airtight circuit and allow some expansion in the lines, at least for the sinks and shower. I know it doesn't address the valve corrosion.

BTW, our antifreeze bottle states "This product is formulated to provide complete protection to -50 degrees F. Some slush may appear at approximately 0 degrees F, but this is not harmful to your water system. As temperature ruses and fluid warms, slush will disappear."

[thoer]

Originally Posted by FMLNM

So should one leave all the faucets and drains open after draining, blowing out and then running antifreeze through them? Wouldn't this prevent an airtight circuit and allow some expansion in the lines, at least for the sinks and shower. I know it doesn't address the valve corrosion.

BTW, our antifreeze bottle states "This product is formulated to provide complete protection to -50 degrees F. Some slush may appear at approximately 0 degrees F, but this is not harmful to your water system. As temperature ruses and fluid warms, slush will disappear."

That makes sense to me. After draining as completely as possible, I closed the black and grey valves, put some of this valve lube down the toilet and shower drain, then let some sit on the toilet valve. :Camco Drain Valve Lube

My grey valve had been getting progressively harder to open and close, so it will be interesting to see if this stuff does anything or if it's just another of those "miracle" products.

[padlin]

I close my faucets, no real reason, but I don't see why you couldn't leave them open if you prefer.

As far as freezing of antifreeze, all I can tell you is that one year, before I started blowing out the antifreeze, I found the shower valve assembly cracked one spring after sitting for the winter with antifreeze in it. And yes, the faucets were closed.

[Donna D.]

Originally Posted by thoer

My grey valve had been getting progressively harder to open and close, so it will be interesting to see if this stuff does anything or if it's just another of those "miracle" products.

This is one of those "maintenance issues," and it's not hard to fix. There are four screws holding the gate to the body (valve). Remove those, clean the gate, lubricate (even vasoline works) and reassemble. Takes about 15-20 minutes and it will work like new. Just be careful not to pinch the seal (looks like an "O" ring). Even that's replaceable if needed.

The gate just gets sticky and gunky from stuff flowing down from the kitchen/bathroom sinks and shower.

[thoer]

Thanks Donna - sounds good. If it's still sticky in the spring, I will do that. I'd probably use some silicone or dry lube as I've always heard that vasoline (petroleum jelly) is on bad for rubber.

[jamie beers]

Originally Posted by Donna D.

This is one of those "maintenance issues," and it's not hard to fix. There are four screws holding the gate to the body (valve). Remove those, clean the gate, lubricate (even vasoline works) and reassemble. Takes about 15-20 minutes and it will work like new. Just be careful not to pinch the seal (looks like an "O" ring). Even that's replaceable if needed.

The gate just gets sticky and gunky from stuff flowing down from the kitchen/bathroom sinks and shower.

Is this "O" ring the rubber that people comment will be damaged by putting antifreeze containing ethanol into the holding tanks? So, if damage ensues, it's easy enough to replace the rubber seal? (couldn't find any antifreeze without ethanol today).

[rbryan4]

Originally Posted by jamie beers

Is this "O" ring the rubber that people comment will be damaged by putting antifreeze containing ethanol into the holding tanks? So, if damage ensues, it's easy enough to replace the rubber seal? (couldn't find any antifreeze without ethanol today).

Walmart and many other stores sell the Prestone RV waterline antifreeze, which is propylene glycol based - not ethanol.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by rbryan4

Walmart and many other stores sell the Prestone RV waterline antifreeze, which is propylene glycol based - not ethanol.

I would be cautious about that...
In Canada, the "Prestone"-branded plumbing antifreeze products are made by Rechochem, and are available in both propylene glycol and ethanol versions, so you need to pick the right one. Walmart.ca lists the Rechochem/Prestone which they carry as Plumbing Antifreeze; this looks like the glycol-based version, but I suggest reading the label.
The product listed on the Prestone website as specifically "waterline" antifreeze is presumably the one Robert mentioned, and I understand that it doesn't contain alcohol, but I don't think Jamie is going to find it by that name in Vancouver. It is listed by Walmart.com as Prestone RV/Marine Antifreeze.

[jamie beers]

My local walmart carries 2 versions, both with ethanol.

[jamie beers]

Winterized today. Realized that the ETI instructions don't mention dumping antifreeze in the black tank.

It seems like most people do put antifreeze into the black tank? I suppose for precaution?

[Donna D.]

Originally Posted by jamie beers

It seems like most people do put antifreeze into the black tank? I suppose for precaution?

Yes, to protect the valve from freezing/cracking if there's any water there. Simple to do.

[gbaglo]

Originally Posted by jamie beers

Winterized today. Realized that the ETI instructions don't mention dumping antifreeze in the black tank.

It seems like most people do put antifreeze into the black tank? I suppose for precaution?

This is from ETI instructions on their web-site:

1. Flush toilet until antifreeze is visible inside the bowl and pour one gallon of antifreeze down the toilet to winterize the black holding tank.
2. Pour antifreeze down sink and shower drains to fill p-traps.

I note that the section on using compressed air does omit step 1 (above) and I've sent a note to ETI.

[jamie beers]

Gotcha, should've mentioned I used compressed air method, following instructions on the first page of this thread.

(The passage you quoted is repeated on the first page of this thread, as part of instructions for winterizing with antifreeze.)

[gbaglo]

I've sent a note to Tammy.

[gbaglo]

Originally Posted by jamie beers

Winterized today. Realized that the ETI instructions don't mention dumping antifreeze in the black tank.

It seems like most people do put antifreeze into the black tank? I suppose for precaution?

Talked to Tammy today and ETI says as long as the black tank is empty, it is not necessary to add anti-freeze to it.

[thoer]

Originally Posted by gbaglo

Talked to Tammy today and ETI says as long as the black tank is empty, it is not necessary to add anti-freeze to it.

I usually leave both the black and grey valves open over winter . (Except this year I've got o ring lube stuff soaking on them.)