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Old 07-09-2016, 03:32 PM   #131
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Originally Posted by rotateclockwise View Post
So, Im puzzled.

For simplicity, Im going to use the 19 Gen 1 specs, which state the following (weight without options).

Dry Hitch Weight 256 lbs
Dry Axle Weight 2354 lbs
Total Dry Weight 2610 lbs

Where Im confused is that Ive heard the hitch weight (256) is applied to the vehicles payload weight. If the payload max were 1000 lbs, then one would have 744 lbs left for people, stuff, etc. in the vehicle (1000 256).
Yes, that is correct. The vehicle supports the hitch weight, so that hitch weight must be included.

You understand, of course, that actual hitch weight will be substantially higher, but we're using the dry, empty, and base equipment numbers for this example.

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Originally Posted by rotateclockwise View Post
If this were true, would only the dry axle weight be applied to the vehicles towing capacity (2354 and not 2610)?
No. The vehicle must pull, control, and stop the entire weight of the trailer, so the trailer weight limit applied to the total weight of the trailer (what's carried on the axle, plus what's carried on the hitch). There are many limitations on the capabilities of a vehicle, and hitch weight limits, payload, and trailer weight are all related to different limitations.
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Old 07-09-2016, 03:33 PM   #132
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Originally Posted by float5 View Post
Pat, no, no worries with 8600 tow capacity!
I am supposing that anyone would empty the fresh to have the others full, or half empty the fresh to have the others half full, but someone might just fill the fresh in some odd case and not empty the tanks.

On the GCWR, just to give an example for others:

If the towing capacity for the vehicle is 5000
And total weight allowed for the loaded vehicle is 6300
Then, if the manufacturer says that the GCWR is 11,300, FINE. No problem.

If the GCWR given is less than what the other two add up to, then you may have to subtract some of the weight you put in the vehicle from your towing capacity. That is often the case with passenger vehicles so that the towing capacity is less than what they have told you. Eric is giving his situation above.
I was thinking so Cathy but I really should just for information get trailer weighed as Robert mentioned . What was funny when first looking at these trailers , thought we would be embaressed with this truck now I am glad to have it . Pat
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Old 07-09-2016, 04:00 PM   #133
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Originally Posted by Brian B-P View Post
No. The vehicle must pull, control, and stop the entire weight of the trailer, so the trailer weight limit applied to the total weight of the trailer (what's carried on the axle, plus what's carried on the hitch). There are many limitations on the capabilities of a vehicle, and hitch weight limits, payload, and trailer weight are all related to different limitations.

Ok. That makes sense. In the case of GCWR, would you add the weight of the vehicle which includes the hitch weight to the trailer axle weight? If you add the vehicle weight to the trailers total weight instead, you are double counting the hitch weight, or is they way it works?

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Old 07-09-2016, 04:07 PM   #134
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Originally Posted by Patandlinda View Post
Sticker says GVWR 1818 kg =4008 lb . 1145 kg shipping weight =2525 lb . 336kg CC =740 lb . Waste tanks 204 kg =450 lb . Water heater 27 kg =60 lb . Fresh water at 90kg = 199 lb .
...
I am guessing the figures on tanks are filled ? My difference in weight carrying capacity is my options is subtracting from GVWR ?
"Dry" means without fluids, not without options. In this case, Escape has calculated the cargo carrying capacity starting from a dry weight of 1145 kg (2525 lb), so it is for your trailer as it is equipped: "shipping weight" means what it weighed when they shipped it out of the factory... with everything installed (so as-equipped, not base) and with nothing in the tanks (so dry).
Weight carrying capacity is what's left after subtracting the weight of the trailer (with your options and with fluids) from what the trailer is allowed to weigh:

GVWR (1818 kg or 4008 lb)
- shipping weight (1145 kg or 2525 lb)
- weight of water which would be in the freshwater tank if you filled it (90 kg or 199 lb)
- weight of water in water heater (27 kg or 60 lb)
- weight of wastewater if tanks full (204 kg or 450 lb)
= 352 kg or 774 lb... left for your stuff in the trailer
I don't know how the placard came out slightly off of this, but that's the calculation; yes, it is based on the tanks being full. This seems like enough to me.

The strange thing is that they allowed for full fresh and waste tanks. That's abnormal, because it doesn't correspond to how RVs are used. Normal practice is to assume a full freshwater tank, and empty waste tanks. As you camp you use water so it moves to the waste tanks, but it doesn't increase in amount, so you will typically never carry more water weight than fits in the freshwater tank. Following that practice (allowing for full freshwater and water heater but empty waste tanks) would result in a generous cargo carrying capacity of 556 kg or 1223 lb.

If you have full waste tanks and fill up with freshwater somewhere that doesn't have a dump site, you could manage to fill all tanks at the same time... so it you do this, allow for the weight.
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Old 07-09-2016, 04:09 PM   #135
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Originally Posted by Patandlinda View Post
What was funny when first looking at these trailers , thought we would be embaressed with this truck now I am glad to have it . Pat
Do you mean that the truck is old? Well, we bought a tow vehicle for the 19' in 2011 and with less than five years on it, I just had the 90K service. Changed the transmission fluid and coolant and a few other things. Even our "new" TV is old now.
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Old 07-09-2016, 04:11 PM   #136
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Originally Posted by rotateclockwise View Post
Ok. That makes sense. In the case of GCWR, would you add the weight of the vehicle which includes the hitch weight to the trailer axle weight? If you add the vehicle weight to the trailers total weight instead, you are double counting the hitch weight, or is they way it works?
Just count it once.
Whether you consider the tongue weight as part of the trailer, or part of what the tow vehicle is carrying, there is only one tongue weight, so don't count it twice. If you drive the whole rig onto one scale, and weigh the whole thing (which is what you're trying to calculate) there would not be two copies of the tongue weight.
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Old 07-09-2016, 04:14 PM   #137
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Originally Posted by Patandlinda View Post
What was funny when first looking at these trailers , thought we would be embaressed with this truck now I am glad to have it . Pat
Quote:
Originally Posted by float5 View Post
Do you mean that the truck is old?
I assume that Pat meant that the truck would seem embarrassingly oversized for the purpose of towing an Escape. It's bigger than it needs to be, but I don't think it's unreasonable, and I think that's what Pat has realized.
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Old 07-09-2016, 04:19 PM   #138
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Originally Posted by float5 View Post
On the GCWR, just to give an example for others:

If the towing capacity for the vehicle is 5000
And total weight allowed for the loaded vehicle is 6300
Then, if the manufacturer says that the GCWR is 11,300, FINE. No problem.

If the GCWR given is less than what the other two add up to, then you may have to subtract some of the weight you put in the vehicle from your towing capacity. That is often the case with passenger vehicles so that the towing capacity is less than what they have told you.
Right, but this is not a problem specific to passenger vehicles - in fact, it is mostly a problem with pickup trucks. Their towing rating is almost always calculated as GCWR minus the curb weight and an allowance for just a driver. None ever have GCWR = GVWR + GTWR (Gross Trailer Weight Rating); I've only seen that for cars with very low trailer ratings which are not expected to be used frequently for towing.

Passenger or multipurpose vehicles (such as Eric's Highlander or my Sienna) have lower trailer weight rating than their GCWR might suggest, so they still have some payload left when towing the maximum trailer. In contrast, many pickup owners would be over their GCWR when towing their maximum rated trailer even with no passenger, zero cargo and a stark naked driver! That's why those really high trailer weight ratings on pickups don't correspond to realistic travel trailer towing capability.
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Old 07-09-2016, 04:24 PM   #139
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If you want accuracy, to me there's no substitute for getting the trailer weighed on a certified scale - both empty and loaded.
Not only is this a good idea, but the same goes with your tow vehicle too, to determine how much cargo capacity you actually have, as well as where you stand with your GWVR too.
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Old 07-09-2016, 04:35 PM   #140
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I went into a state scale to see the total weight and then down to a commercial place when I thought the first weight was high. The difference they told me was 220 lbs., however, the second one then changed theirs, as the weight on paper was 60 lbs. less an what they had said. Did not even bother with the other weights at the time, as would have to remove WDH and all. But just to point out that the same weight may be given as different at different places.
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