2017 Builds - Conversation and Information

[Kountrykamper]

It was stated that the frame, axles and lower part of the body are 4" wider. Not sure how much weight that would be.

The 19' was changed from a 3" to a 4" frame back in mid 2013. Ours was finished in August 2013 and we have the 4". Reace told me back then that the change added about 60 lbs.

[thoer]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

...
That's 3331 - 2610 = 721 pounds of options and design change weight gain, versus the previous-generation spec...

I asked Reace about weight changes for the new model 21s and he said that due the heavier awning and heavier fiberglass layup needed to support it, the trailers are about 200-250 pounds heavier than the older models.

[thoer]

I looked at the silver label on our 17B and compared it to the stated specs on the web, ours is heavier, probably mostly due to the AC and larger refrigerator.

I believe those labels reflect the weight with all installed options, so the weight increase from current to 2017 models using the labels would need to be done between two trailers with identical options.

[escape artist]

Hi: davescape... In my capacity as a retired owner I just paid a visit to Dexter's web page. I don't see any load info for the Torflex axles other than they are not recommended for a triple axle application. Reace has in the past used 2X2200lb. axles on the 19'er. Alf
escape artist N.S. of Lake Erie

[Kountrykamper]

Originally Posted by escape artist

Hi: davescape... In my capacity as a retired owner I just paid a visit to Dexter's web page. I don't see any load info for the Torflex axles other than they are not recommended for a triple axle application. Reace has in the past used 2X2200lb. axles on the 19'er. Alf
escape artist N.S. of Lake Erie

Ours has 2500 lb.

[Patandlinda]

Originally Posted by Kountrykamper

Ours has 2500 lb.

Ours are also 2500lb axles with 4 in frames Nov. 2013 . Pat

[freespirit]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

Not So Good News
GAWR: 1136 kg (2504 lb) each (almost certainly should have read 1134 kg, because that's 2500 pounds)
That's not enough. Torflex axles in tandem use are not to be loaded assuming an equal distribution of load, because they don't load-share; a substantial allowance is supposed to be made for this, and until now Escape has done that:

• 2x2500 lb (1134 kg) GAWR and 4000 lb (1814 kg) GVWR for the 19'
• 2x3000 lb (1362 kg) GAWR and 4600 lb (2087) GVWR for the 21'

Either the GVWR was raised to a level not appropriate for the suspension (axles), or the suspension was changed but the placard doesn't show the updated GAWR.

so if this is correct then the previous Escape 19 had about 1000 lbs of safety margin using 2500 lb rated axles with a 4000 lb GVWR for the Escape 19
and if the new GVWR is in fact 5000 lbs, then if Escape is using the same 2500 lb rated axles the 1000 lb safety margin has evaporated.
and if the new GVWR is in fact 5000 lbs, then Escape should be using 3000 lb rated axles to maintain the same 1000 lb safety margin on the 2017 Escape 19?
hopefully an email to Escape can clarify this...

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by thoer

I asked Reace about weight changes for the new model 21s and he said that due the heavier awning and heavier fiberglass layup needed to support it, the trailers are about 200-250 pounds heavier than the older models.

Thanks for the info
Did Reace mention whether the wider frame (which means longer and heavier crossmembers) and extra width at top and bottom (which means more fiberglass and more floor plywood) are included in this 200 to 250 pounds?

Originally Posted by thoer

I believe those labels reflect the weight with all installed options, so the weight increase from current to 2017 models using the labels would need to be done between two trailers with identical options.

I agree; to isolate the effect of body design changes the equipment would need to match.

[thoer]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

Thanks for the info
Did Reace mention whether the wider frame (which means longer and heavier crossmembers) and extra width at top and bottom (which means more fiberglass and more floor plywood) are included in this 200 to 250 pounds?

That was all he said, so I am assuming (dangerous I know ) that the 200-250 is total difference. That seems to me like a reasonable total, as the 250# would seem like a lot just for extra fiberglass and heavier awning. Once the new specs make it to the website we should know for sure.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by escape artist

... In my capacity as a retired owner I just paid a visit to Dexter's web page. I don't see any load info for the Torflex axles other than they are not recommended for a triple axle application.

That information is in the Trailer Design Considerations. It warns about unequal load distribution; it explains how the resulting overloading over bumps is the reason to not use triple axles (in the capacity range of interest here), and that for tandems it is both a continuous concern due to non-level trailer attitude and a momentary concern over bumps. Reading the current version again, it does not recommend a capacity margin, but that margin is a rational response to the loading concerns.

Originally Posted by escape artist

Reace has in the past used 2X2200lb. axles on the 19'er.

As others have mentioned, the 19' axles have been 2500 pounds, for as long as I can recall. In discussion with Reace during the original design process (in 2008!), he had proposed two 2200 pound #9 Torflex. At this capacity, 13" tires would have had enough capacity, and he was planning 13" or perhaps 14". I didn't think any went into production with this spec, but perhaps...

The Torflex #10 is only available in the range of 2500 to 3500 pounds, and has 10" brakes; #9 comes in up to 2200 pound capacity, and comes with 7" brakes - they don't use the same hub and brake components.

Originally Posted by freespirit

so if this is correct then the previous Escape 19 had about 1000 lbs of safety margin using 2500 lb rated axles with a 4000 lb GVWR for the Escape 19 and if the new GVWR is in fact 5000 lbs, then if Escape is using the same 2500 lb rated axles the 1000 lb safety margin has evaporated...

I have just reviewed references and correspondence from several years ago, and I don't see a specific margin. It seems that the margin between the original 19' total axle capacity and the GVWR was Reace's reasonable response to the issue; it may simply be that Reace has decided with several years of experience with tandem Torflex that the margin is not needed.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by thoer

That was all he said, so I am assuming (dangerous I know ) that the 200-250 is total difference. That seems to me like a reasonable total, as the 250# would seem like a lot just for extra fiberglass and heavier awning.

Makes sense to me.

Originally Posted by thoer

Once the new specs make it to the website we should know for sure.

Sadly, that could be a long time.

[freespirit]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

That information is in the Trailer Design Considerations. It warns about unequal load distribution; it explains how the resulting overloading over bumps is the reason to not use triple axles (in the capacity range of interest here), and that for tandems it is both a continuous concern due to non-level trailer attitude and a momentary concern over bumps. Reading the current version again, it does not recommend a capacity margin, but that margin is a rational response to the loading concerns.


As others have mentioned, the 19' axles have been 2500 pounds, for as long as I can recall. In discussion with Reace during the original design process (in 2008!), he had proposed two 2200 pound #9 Torflex. At this capacity, 13" tires would have had enough capacity, and he was planning 13" or perhaps 14". I didn't think any went into production with this spec, but perhaps...

The Torflex #10 is only available in the range of 2500 to 3500 pounds, and has 10" brakes; #9 comes in up to 2200 pound capacity, and comes with 7" brakes - they don't use the same hub and brake components.


I have just reviewed references and correspondence from several years ago, and I don't see a specific margin. It seems that the margin between the original 19' total axle capacity and the GVWR was Reace's reasonable response to the issue; it may simply be that Reace has decided with several years of experience with tandem Torflex that the margin is not needed.

perhaps the manufacturer of the axle has some conservative safety margin in his weight rating spec also...

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by freespirit

perhaps the manufacturer of the axle has some conservative safety margin in his weight rating spec also...

Yes, the axle rating always allows for bump loads. Dexter says specifically that even extra-high bump loads due to lack of equalization can be handled (for a tandem, but not a triple)... but that continuing unequal distribution (due to out-of-level attitude) must be avoided.

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

As others have mentioned, the 19' axles have been 2500 pounds, for as long as I can recall. In discussion with Reace during the original design process (in 2008!), he had proposed two 2200 pound #9 Torflex. At this capacity, 13" tires would have had enough capacity, and he was planning 13" or perhaps 14". I didn't think any went into production with this spec, but perhaps...

The Torflex #10 is only available in the range of 2500 to 3500 pounds, and has 10" brakes; #9 comes in up to 2200 pound capacity, and comes with 7" brakes - they don't use the same hub and brake components.

Just for information our trailer is a 2010 (ordered Oct '09/delivered May '10) and has dual 2300 lb rated axles (per sales sheet; not confirmed on axle) with 14" tires (ST205-75-R14) and a GVWR on the placard of 1818kg (~4000lbs). Approx total dry weight 2510lbs. I see some literature from Dexter that #10 axles are available from 2300 to 3500 lbs so I assume that this is what we have.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by rubicon327

Just for information our trailer is a 2010 (ordered Oct '09/delivered May '10) and has dual 2300 lb rated axles (per sales sheet; not confirmed on axle) with 14" tires (ST205-75-R14) and a GVWR on the placard of 1818kg (~4000lbs). Approx total dry weight 2510lbs. I see some literature from Dexter that #10 axles are available from 2300 to 3500 lbs so I assume that this is what we have.

Thanks
The #10 range appears to be inconsistently stated by Dexter Axle - 2300 pounds in some literature, 2500 in others, but obviously 2300 is the correct value. That 14" tire size is what the 17 Foot used to have, and is more than enough tire for a 2300 (or 2500) pound axle (although the current larger tire would be fine, too, as long as it fits the wheel wells).

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

..although the current larger tire would be fine, too, as long as it fits the wheel wells.

I did confirm with Reace that the 15" will fit without modification just in case we want to upgrade in the future.

[Jimrules]

We will be installing a new (taller) garage door to accommodate our upcoming 19', so I called yesterday to verify the hight of the new design. I spoke to Tammy and she told me that the 2nd gen 19' without airconditioning is 8'6", with air is 9'. I also asked about weights and she said the new Dry weight is 2950lbs. (Old 2610 lbs.) and the new GVWR is 5000lbs.

[chinaski]

Originally Posted by Jimrules

We will be installing a new (taller) garage door to accommodate our upcoming 19', so I called yesterday to verify the hight of the new design. I spoke to Tammy and she told me that the 2nd gen 19' without airconditioning is 8'6", with air is 9'. I also asked about weights and she said the new Dry weight is 2950lbs. (Old 2610 lbs.) and the new GVWR is 5000lbs.

If the 5000 lb GVRW is a correct figure then i have a problem. The current model is rated at 4000 lbs and my tow vehicle is rated at 5000. I can tow it. But if it's 5000, that's too heavy ( don't want to tow at the limit of what i can tow).

[tractors1]

Originally Posted by chinaski

If the 5000 lb GVRW is a correct figure then i have a problem. The current model is rated at 4000 lbs and my tow vehicle is rated at 5000. I can tow it. But if it's 5000, that's too heavy ( don't want to tow at the limit of what i can tow).

GVWR is the trailer plus all your stuff, not the weight of the trailer itself.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by chinaski

If the 5000 lb GVRW is a correct figure then i have a problem. The current model is rated at 4000 lbs and my tow vehicle is rated at 5000. I can tow it. But if it's 5000, that's too heavy ( don't want to tow at the limit of what i can tow).

Originally Posted by tractors1

GVWR is the trailer plus all your stuff, not the weight of the trailer itself.

True: you don't need to load the trailer up to the maximum allowed (the trailer's GVWR), and most people don't. The new generation apparently weighs 340 pounds more than a similarly equipped trailer of the same model in the first generation, so if nobody's earlier 19' weighed more than 4000 pounds with all their stuff, then a new one with all the same stuff won't weigh more than 4340 pounds.

The GVWR was increased by much more than the weight increase of the trailer itself, so apparently Escape adjusted GVWR to allow owners to carry more weight of stuff than before, if they want.