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Old 07-04-2016, 07:27 AM   #61
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It was stated that the frame, axles and lower part of the body are 4" wider. Not sure how much weight that would be.

The 19' was changed from a 3" to a 4" frame back in mid 2013. Ours was finished in August 2013 and we have the 4". Reace told me back then that the change added about 60 lbs.
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Old 07-04-2016, 08:26 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by Brian B-P View Post
...
That's 3331 - 2610 = 721 pounds of options and design change weight gain, versus the previous-generation spec...
I asked Reace about weight changes for the new model 21s and he said that due the heavier awning and heavier fiberglass layup needed to support it, the trailers are about 200-250 pounds heavier than the older models.
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Old 07-04-2016, 09:39 AM   #63
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I looked at the silver label on our 17B and compared it to the stated specs on the web, ours is heavier, probably mostly due to the AC and larger refrigerator.

I believe those labels reflect the weight with all installed options, so the weight increase from current to 2017 models using the labels would need to be done between two trailers with identical options.
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Old 07-04-2016, 09:39 AM   #64
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Hi: davescape... In my capacity as a retired owner I just paid a visit to Dexter's web page. I don't see any load info for the Torflex axles other than they are not recommended for a triple axle application. Reace has in the past used 2X2200lb. axles on the 19'er. Alf
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Old 07-04-2016, 10:21 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by escape artist View Post
Hi: davescape... In my capacity as a retired owner I just paid a visit to Dexter's web page. I don't see any load info for the Torflex axles other than they are not recommended for a triple axle application. Reace has in the past used 2X2200lb. axles on the 19'er. Alf
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Ours has 2500 lb.
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Old 07-04-2016, 10:37 AM   #66
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Ours has 2500 lb.
Ours are also 2500lb axles with 4 in frames Nov. 2013 . Pat
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Old 07-04-2016, 12:21 PM   #67
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Not So Good News
GAWR: 1136 kg (2504 lb) each (almost certainly should have read 1134 kg, because that's 2500 pounds)
That's not enough. Torflex axles in tandem use are not to be loaded assuming an equal distribution of load, because they don't load-share; a substantial allowance is supposed to be made for this, and until now Escape has done that:
  • 2x2500 lb (1134 kg) GAWR and 4000 lb (1814 kg) GVWR for the 19'
  • 2x3000 lb (1362 kg) GAWR and 4600 lb (2087) GVWR for the 21'
Either the GVWR was raised to a level not appropriate for the suspension (axles), or the suspension was changed but the placard doesn't show the updated GAWR.
so if this is correct then the previous Escape 19 had about 1000 lbs of safety margin using 2500 lb rated axles with a 4000 lb GVWR for the Escape 19
and if the new GVWR is in fact 5000 lbs, then if Escape is using the same 2500 lb rated axles the 1000 lb safety margin has evaporated.
and if the new GVWR is in fact 5000 lbs, then Escape should be using 3000 lb rated axles to maintain the same 1000 lb safety margin on the 2017 Escape 19?
hopefully an email to Escape can clarify this...
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Old 07-04-2016, 01:18 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by thoer View Post
I asked Reace about weight changes for the new model 21s and he said that due the heavier awning and heavier fiberglass layup needed to support it, the trailers are about 200-250 pounds heavier than the older models.
Thanks for the info
Did Reace mention whether the wider frame (which means longer and heavier crossmembers) and extra width at top and bottom (which means more fiberglass and more floor plywood) are included in this 200 to 250 pounds?

Quote:
Originally Posted by thoer View Post
I believe those labels reflect the weight with all installed options, so the weight increase from current to 2017 models using the labels would need to be done between two trailers with identical options.
I agree; to isolate the effect of body design changes the equipment would need to match.
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Old 07-04-2016, 02:29 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by Brian B-P View Post
Thanks for the info
Did Reace mention whether the wider frame (which means longer and heavier crossmembers) and extra width at top and bottom (which means more fiberglass and more floor plywood) are included in this 200 to 250 pounds?
That was all he said, so I am assuming (dangerous I know ) that the 200-250 is total difference. That seems to me like a reasonable total, as the 250# would seem like a lot just for extra fiberglass and heavier awning. Once the new specs make it to the website we should know for sure.
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Old 07-04-2016, 03:04 PM   #70
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... In my capacity as a retired owner I just paid a visit to Dexter's web page. I don't see any load info for the Torflex axles other than they are not recommended for a triple axle application.
That information is in the Trailer Design Considerations. It warns about unequal load distribution; it explains how the resulting overloading over bumps is the reason to not use triple axles (in the capacity range of interest here), and that for tandems it is both a continuous concern due to non-level trailer attitude and a momentary concern over bumps. Reading the current version again, it does not recommend a capacity margin, but that margin is a rational response to the loading concerns.

Quote:
Originally Posted by escape artist View Post
Reace has in the past used 2X2200lb. axles on the 19'er.
As others have mentioned, the 19' axles have been 2500 pounds, for as long as I can recall. In discussion with Reace during the original design process (in 2008!), he had proposed two 2200 pound #9 Torflex. At this capacity, 13" tires would have had enough capacity, and he was planning 13" or perhaps 14". I didn't think any went into production with this spec, but perhaps...

The Torflex #10 is only available in the range of 2500 to 3500 pounds, and has 10" brakes; #9 comes in up to 2200 pound capacity, and comes with 7" brakes - they don't use the same hub and brake components.

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Originally Posted by freespirit View Post
so if this is correct then the previous Escape 19 had about 1000 lbs of safety margin using 2500 lb rated axles with a 4000 lb GVWR for the Escape 19 and if the new GVWR is in fact 5000 lbs, then if Escape is using the same 2500 lb rated axles the 1000 lb safety margin has evaporated...
I have just reviewed references and correspondence from several years ago, and I don't see a specific margin. It seems that the margin between the original 19' total axle capacity and the GVWR was Reace's reasonable response to the issue; it may simply be that Reace has decided with several years of experience with tandem Torflex that the margin is not needed.
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