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Old 07-08-2016, 12:10 AM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chinaski View Post
If the 5000 lb GVRW is a correct figure then i have a problem. The current model is rated at 4000 lbs and my tow vehicle is rated at 5000. I can tow it. But if it's 5000, that's too heavy ( don't want to tow at the limit of what i can tow).
2950 lbs dry weight is fine for a vehicle with a tow rating of 5000 lbs. Figure 1000 lbs. of water and gear, and you're still at 4000 lbs.; well within your 5000 lb. rating ...
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Old 07-08-2016, 11:57 AM   #82
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Originally Posted by chinaski View Post
If the 5000 lb GVRW is a correct figure then i have a problem. The current model is rated at 4000 lbs and my tow vehicle is rated at 5000. I can tow it. But if it's 5000, that's too heavy ( don't want to tow at the limit of what i can tow).
could be a problem for more than one buyer who signed up for a new 2017 trailer....Escape probably should offer you a refund of your deposit should you choose to cancel since the change may impact your TUG. They offered a refund to the people who bought the 21 after Escape revealed the floor changed in the dinette area impacting those that bought thinking it had a flat floor and needing it to be flat.....all downsides of ordering a new product (in this case a trailer) before the manufacturer has actually built the product they are selling.....
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Old 07-08-2016, 12:14 PM   #83
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We did have the weight discussion back a ways and pretty much everyone knew they were going to be heavier. It will be interesting to see the weight increase on the 21 and 5.0TA which will probably increase more than the 19 increase. Did we ever get the weights on the new 17's yet?.
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Old 07-08-2016, 12:46 PM   #84
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All this about 300 lbs is making me think about selling mine and buying a 2017. The value of mine seems to be going up.

Buy a used classic.
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Old 07-08-2016, 01:18 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by Kountrykamper View Post
All this about 300 lbs is making me think about selling mine and buying a 2017. The value of mine seems to be going up.

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Old 07-08-2016, 01:44 PM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freespirit View Post
the dinette area impacting those that bought thinking it had a flat floor and needing it to be flat...
This one has me stumped. Why would one need to have a flat floor given that the rise is much less than getting into the trailer via the outside steps (which is actually two steps up)?

I think most of the issues with the new model were known before the buying schedule for 2017 opened in March. Those with trailers already ordered for 2016 would have the "classic" mold as their choice, I believe.
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Old 07-08-2016, 02:06 PM   #87
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I think most of the issues with the new model were known before the buying schedule for 2017 opened in March.
Yes, but this is the one specific design feature which was not known. The weight increase might have been guessed, but was also not known... and still is not known with any certainty.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KarenH View Post
Those with trailers already ordered for 2016 would have the "classic" mold as their choice, I believe.
As discussed several times, this would have been their expectation and may be their preference, but it is not necessary what they want and won't necessarily be what they get.
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Old 07-08-2016, 02:20 PM   #88
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Originally Posted by Brian B-P View Post
Yes, but this is the one specific design feature which was not known. The weight increase might have been guessed, but was also not known... and still is not known with any certainty.

As discussed several times, this would have been their expectation and may be their preference, but it is not necessary what they want and won't necessarily be what they get.
First part: Yes, but I was asking why such a short rise was objectionable because a flat floor was needed and still don't understand that part. If one can take the two steps to get into the trailer, why is a three- or four-inch rise now an impediment. I have one in my trailer and don't even notice or think about it. And I've certainly never tripped over it but that's not the point here. It's the need I question.

Second part: Those who ordered 2016 models knew what they were getting when ordering and do not have to change a thing.

And now I will quit.
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Old 07-08-2016, 02:47 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by KarenH View Post
First part: Yes, but I was asking why such a short rise was objectionable because a flat floor was needed and still don't understand that part.
Neither do I - it's not my requirement, and I think Karen has a reasonable question... although I also don't doubt that for some people there is a need for a flat floor. In my previous post, I didn't comment on the question of need.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KarenH View Post
Second part: Those who ordered 2016 models knew what they were getting when ordering and do not have to change a thing.
I guess I've lost track in all of the discussion, but I didn't think that Escape was going to continue the first-generation / "classic" / 2016 moulds to the end of the year. Apparently they are (or were intending to as of the 2017 order announcements:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tammy and Escape Office View Post
As we are giving customers the opportunity to choose between the 2016 and 2017 models we will be manufacturing two different trailers from June through to December 2016.
... so if that's still the plan, I agree that those with orders placed last year for production in 2016 can get what they ordered.
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Old 07-08-2016, 03:22 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by KarenH View Post
First part: Yes, but I was asking why such a short rise was objectionable because a flat floor was needed and still don't understand that part. If one can take the two steps to get into the trailer, why is a three- or four-inch rise now an impediment. I have one in my trailer and don't even notice or think about it. And I've certainly never tripped over it but that's not the point here. It's the need I question.
not an issue for this camper but it was for some as mentioned in other threads, hence Escape offered a refund of their deposit...
This camper actually likes the rise in the new Escape 21 in the rear dinette area, which may make it easier to see out the windows while seated without paying extra to have them raised like in the Escape 19. If they offered the new 21 with an alternate floor plan similar to the current 19 with respect to the bathroom location and a full/queen bed at front but sideways , then might consider it for purchase and know others that might have a renewed interest in a 21.

The new weights not a problem for this camper's tug but it might be for some light weight Tugs that may now be considered marginal for the owner. Would like to know though if Escape installed a new mfg axle rating to >2500 lb or <3000 lb each for the new 5000 lb GVWR rating of the trailer, especially when it was revealed here that the previous GVWR rating of 4000 lbs had on some trailers a mfg axle rating of 2500 lb each allowing a 1000 lb safety margin.
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Old 07-09-2016, 01:24 AM   #91
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Did we ever get the weights on the new 17's yet?.
Got it from Escape today for the 17B: Dry 2400, which would make Wet (20+6 gallons) 2660 lbs. This is an increase of 230 lbs. over the classic.

New GVWR is 4,000 lbs though, giving a net of 270 lbs. additional cargo capacity over the classic.

We recently switched our order from a 19' to a 17'B due to concerns with the 19' fitting in our storage location (thanks for the measurements by the way!). I started to get concerned with the weight of the options I chose for the lower GVWR 17B, so I verified that they will add up to about another 375 lbs (per ETI). That includes Dual 6v batteries, A/C, solar, foam, and extra insulation + frameless thermal. I figure these weights for the options, although Escape didn't seem to want to break it out for me so these are an educated guess:

A/C: 100
Solar: 50
Dual 6V: 70
Foam: 40
Extra insulation +
frameless thermal: 115

If they hadn't upped the GVWR I would have had only 465 lbs left, but with the increased GVWR I've got 965, so no problem. We typically travel pretty light so I will be rolling with probably right around 3,400 lbs which is less than 1/2 the towing capacity of our Touareg TDI.
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Old 07-09-2016, 07:10 AM   #92
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For me, the raised floor is a great idea, as I would have just had to do it myself later, at a cost of time, materials, and weight, in order to get the seats at a proper height. There may be a few who would have preferred the tall seats and level floor, but I too really don't see a need for concern. Maybe someone has some valid reasons why level would outweigh the benefits of raised?
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Old 07-09-2016, 08:04 AM   #93
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Maybe someone has some valid reasons why level would outweigh the benefits of raised?
Something like post #12 in this tread is the only reason I can think of, and I'd say it's pretty uncommon. http://www.escapeforum.org/forums/f2...tml#post137050
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Old 07-09-2016, 08:30 AM   #94
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Something like post #12 in this tread is the only reason I can think of, and I'd say it's pretty uncommon. http://www.escapeforum.org/forums/f2...tml#post137050
No doubt there will be a few of these uncommon reasons, which do have validity in their own right, but I just see so many better reasons that will help more folks in the end by having it raised.
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Old 07-09-2016, 09:01 AM   #95
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Ron, thanks for the updates on weights and capacities. Your info matches what Reace told me he was seeing in increased weight in the 200 - 250# range due to changes in the 2017 models.
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Old 07-09-2016, 09:50 AM   #96
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I’m considering either a 19 or a 21, but I too am concerned about weight. Having a clearer picture of the base weight before we bring in our stuff will help.

The numbers below are based off product manufacture specified weights or guesstimates. Each should be accurate within +/- 3lbs with the exception of the insulation and DP windows. I have no idea of the extra weight those bring.

Options Weights (in lbs.)
AC100
Dual 6v Batteries – 70
Solar – 40
Reinforced Wall – 25 (each)
Inverter 150010
Insulation and DP Windows – 200 (guesstimate)
Jack TV Antenna – 8
Surge Protector4
Microwave45
Power Tongue Jack15
Storage Box40
Sand Pads5
Drawer Under Wardrobe Closet3
Propane40 (full)
Misc. other small options50

Total Options Weight (note: reinforced wall X3) – 705

19 Base Weight 2,950 (a 340 gain over 19 gen 1 stated dry weight of 2,610 per forum)
19 with Above Options3,655

21 base weight 3,480 (used the 19 net gain of 340 plus the 21 gen 1 stated dry weight of 3,140, but the gain could be lower as stated here)
21 with above options4,185

4,186 is about 65% of my towing capacity and I would safely be under my GCWR, but this is before I step in the door and we bring our stuff. Does this look accurate to others?
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Old 07-09-2016, 10:16 AM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chinaski View Post
If the 5000 lb GVRW is a correct figure then i have a problem. The current model is rated at 4000 lbs and my tow vehicle is rated at 5000. I can tow it. But if it's 5000, that's too heavy ( don't want to tow at the limit of what i can tow).
I agree with Chinaski this increased weight means we will no longer be comfortable towing a 19 ft with our current tow vehicle which has a 5000lb tow rating. We received an estimated weight of 3800 lbs for our 19 after submitting a draft build sheet and, although, there are things we will now remove from our wish list because of the weight, it is unlikely we will be able to or want to remove enough to reduce the weight to a comfortable range. This is disappointing. We were aware there would be some increase but generally based our decision to order upon the information on line, the only official weights being those stated on th ETI web site. So far our interactions with ETI have been extremely positive, so I find this substantial discrepancy in Weight uncharacteristically poor customer relations. We are lucky that we have a place to store the trailer when it arrives next year until we can afford to replace our tow vehicle,but this is not at all what we had planned.
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Old 07-09-2016, 10:42 AM   #98
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2017 Builds - Conversation and Information

Barry, I don't see an increase of around 300 lbs as a show stopper. My guess is that the towing experience with your planned tow would be almost indistinguishable between the 2016 model and the 2017. Yes, they raised the GVWR by 1000 lbs, but the actual weight increase is nowhere near that. Loaded, you'll probably come in under 4000 lbs. This is an educated guess based on the typical loads as well as ours.


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Old 07-09-2016, 10:50 AM   #99
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I easily towed my 19 with a 5000# Toyota FJ rating and my 21' with my Ram 1500 which can pull more but has a carrying capacity of only 1300 lbs, so with 500# tongue weight
and passengers it is close to full. As long as you do not exceed your capacity, you will be fine, and my 21' was at
3800# loaded at the axles+500 tw, adding another 250# for the new style will have little impact on your 5000# tow vehicle. Like any travel trailer, judicious loading will keep you safe, but bringing a cast iron set that serves 8 and keeping all your tanks full is not judicious loading, so weigh your trailer after loading and then you will be aware of it's weight.
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Old 07-09-2016, 10:56 AM   #100
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If, say, 340 lbs. is added to the dry weight of a 19', I don't see that as a problem for towing with 5000 capacity --- if you actually have 5000 capacity, which you can determine by looking at your GCWR.

The same added weight for a 21' becomes a possible problem with 5000 tow capacity.
The average loaded weight of a 19' has been in the 3700-3800 range for first generation whereas for the 21' it was 4200-4300.

With a new 19', it would not be a problem for us. Many of us tow 21's with the new loaded weight of a 19' with 5000 capacity. The new 21' loaded weight is still likely within the allowed weight but will come closer.

I would say that how you tow, or how you travel, has as much to do with what you see as acceptable. If you go cross-country or expect to spend much of your towing time on Interstates, and if you expect to tow at about the same speed as when you do not tow, you could have a problem. If you prefer little travel in a day on country roads at much lower speeds, that is a different way of travelling. Or if you live near or in mountainous areas, or plan to be coming down lots of them, that is not the same kind of travel as someone else's.

With a 19', you will still have leeway on the weights and with a 21' it will be much closer to the allowed weight.
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