2017 Builds - Conversation and Information

[Jim Bennett]

For me, reading this thread is sure tough, so many differing opinions. I know I was always of the understanding that Dry Weight and Delivered Weight were too different things. Dry weight being the base model without options, and delivered weight had your options factored in.

This really is moot though, as if you weigh your own trailer dry, you can easily calculate the payload from that. This actual number is the one you need to use. Plus, do a weigh in when you have it loaded to the max, just to see where you are.

I will be adding a few hundred pounds of doors, cabinetry, electronics, table, sink and taps, front bike receiver, hood fan, etc, that I will be adding after I pick it up. I will be doing everything with weight of components in mind though. Fortunately, what we carry in the trailer is not real heavy compared to most.

Some folks are leaving the fridge out, solar off, have plans to change batteries, and add a bunch of their own other options. Any of these things completely change the dry or delivered weight.

[thoer]

Originally Posted by Jim Bennett

For me, reading this thread is sure tough, so many differing opinions. I know I was always of the understanding that Dry Weight and Delivered Weight were too different things. Dry weight being the base model without options, and delivered weight had your options factored in.

jim, that is what my understanding is too. The dry weight they list on the website, is the base model with no options and delivered or shipping weight is the trailer exactly as equipped. But I also heard that they do no actually weigh each trailer precisely, that the shipping weight is based on average known weights of the various options added onto the base. But that was 2010 info, maybe now Escape has their own scale?

[float5]

I don't know if they have their own scale but they are sending you the weight of your Escape with options about a month before it is built.

Obviously on the specs, that is the dry weight, no options. A lot of people look at those specs and think they can add 300-400 lbs. of their cargo and that will be their loaded weight. They have no idea that it will likely be three times that added, when options are included.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by thoer

The dry weight they list on the website, is the base model with no options and delivered or shipping weight is the trailer exactly as equipped.

Well, yes, the weight listed on the website will be the base weight - meaning without options - and of course it will be empty. It's also explicitly dry (nothing in the tanks). Add optional equipment but leave the tanks empty, and it's still a dry weight.

It's not necessary to own a scale to have actual as-built weights. There's a commercial D.A.I. truck scale about 100 metres (further by road) from Escape's front door, at the Esso station on Industrial Way.

[Patandlinda]

Originally Posted by float5

Do you mean that the truck is old? Well, we bought a tow vehicle for the 19' in 2011 and with less than five years on it, I just had the 90K service. Changed the transmission fluid and coolant and a few other things. Even our "new" TV is old now.

No Cathy not being embaressed with the truck . Going by the information on Escape website I was afraid it was too much .I'd be pulling this 19 down the road with this big truck . Since then see many get big trucks . It just is what I had . She doesn't look too bad . Get compliments all the time . She is a 1992 F250 . Less then 130,000 miles and I had Trans rebuilt . Had a leaking seal and decided go ahead and get the whole Trans done . Last summer when I went to see kids in Washington all the way up and coming home lots of these still on the road . Been told good years for Ford . Pat

[Patandlinda]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

I assume that Pat meant that the truck would seem embarrassingly oversized for the purpose of towing an Escape. It's bigger than it needs to be, but I don't think it's unreasonable, and I think that's what Pat has realized.

That 's it Brian . Ok with truck now . Pat

[KarenH]

Originally Posted by Patandlinda

She is a 1992 F250 . Less then 130,000 miles...

Thank goodness, someone on this forum has a truck older than mine: 1993 F150 with 90,000 miles...

Thanks for 'fessing up, Pat!

[Rossue]

Karen- that's about 4K/year, which means you need to get out more

[KarenH]

Originally Posted by Rossue

Karen- that's about 4K/year, which means you need to get out more

Ah, but I have a car, too.

[float5]

Originally Posted by Patandlinda

No Cathy not being embaressed with the truck . Going by the information on Escape website I was afraid it was too much .I'd be pulling this 19 down the road with this big truck . Since then see many get big trucks . It just is what I had . She doesn't look too bad . Get compliments all the time . She is a 1992 F250 . Less then 130,000 miles and I had Trans rebuilt . Had a leaking seal and decided go ahead and get the whole Trans done . Last summer when I went to see kids in Washington all the way up and coming home lots of these still on the road . Been told good years for Ford . Pat

I thought that is what you meant; I just wanted to mention my "old" truck! which you confirmed: 1992 with only 130k and I am already at 90 with a 2011. We have been around quite a lot with the Escapes but most miles are non-towing.

And, yes, that is downright embarrassing!. Many people had big pick-ups for something else, maybe another (large) trailer before they bought fiberglass, so no problem towing any egg.

[Patandlinda]

Originally Posted by KarenH

Thank goodness, someone on this forum has a truck older than mine: 1993 F150 with 90,000 miles...

Thanks for 'fessing up, Pat!

Yep Karen these are great trucks and they still can go a lot longer . The best part I tell my kids ,I have wind wings ! Were you able to get the lady's website information to see what she did in her Casitas trailer for her sink ? Pat

[Patandlinda]

Originally Posted by KarenH

Ah, but I have a car, too.

Me too ! Pat

[freespirit]

for those in Texas , apparently another implication with the new 2017 Escape trailer weights...Escape 19.. previous 4000 lb now 5000 lb

"to register a non-farm trailer that has a gross weight of 4,501 pounds or more, that trailer has to have a valid inspection,"

not that an inspection is a bad thing... just another thing to do every year before registration, where a previous Escape trailer may not have required this due to its lower weight rating.

[rbryan4]

A good point Jeff. If the MCOO states a gross weight above that number, then an annual inspection will be required. Trouble is, the law states they must be inspected at a state certified safety inspection station - and many of those will not inspect trailers, or they lack the facility size to do so.


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[freespirit]

might as well bring this up as well with regard to the increased 2017 trailer weights..feel free to educate this trailer newbie...
at some point in the past Escape decided the 3" box frame needed changing to 4" box frame...not sure why but assuming this was to better handle the weight with the previous generation of max gross weight ratings. So for example the Escape 19 had a previous max rating of 4000 lbs and is now max 5000 lbs for the new 2017 model. While the jury is still out as to whether Escape also increased the installed mfg axle weight rating to possibly 3000 lbs each on the new 2017 Escape 19 from the previously 2500 lb each mfg axle rating....(waiting on Escape to reply to emailed question)
the question is ...is the current 4" box frame still sufficient or should it be increased as well to handle the additional 1000 lbs weight rating?
assuming the previous 4 "box frame size provided some safety margin as well, wonder if this safety margin has evaporated with the new weights?

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by freespirit

for those in Texas , apparently another implication with the new 2017 Escape trailer weights...Escape 19.. previous 4000 lb now 5000 lb

"to register a non-farm trailer that has a gross weight of 4,501 pounds or more, that trailer has to have a valid inspection,"

not that an inspection is a bad thing... just another thing to do every year before registration, where a previous Escape trailer may not have required this due to its lower weight rating.

This same issue has come up before, but with the 21' which has a GVWR of 4600 pounds (at least in some cases) and the 5.0TA which has a GVWR of 5000 pounds, even in the original version in both cases.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by freespirit

... at some point in the past Escape decided the 3" box frame needed changing to 4" box frame...not sure why but assuming this was to better handle the weight with the previous generation of max gross weight ratings. So for example the Escape 19 had a previous max rating of 4000 lbs and is now max 5000 lbs for the new 2017 model.
...
the question is ...is the current 4" box frame still sufficient or should it be increased as well to handle the additional 1000 lbs weight rating?
assuming the previous 4 "box frame size provided some safety margin as well, wonder if this safety margin has evaporated with the new weights?

The 19' and 21' have the same size of steel tubing in the frame (2" wide, 4" tall). Since a shorter trailer puts less stress of the frame (think of it as a shorter bridge), the 19' with 2"x4" frame certainly has enough strength for a higher GVWR than the 4600 pounds of the previous 21'.

Similarly, the 5.0TA with a 5000 pound GVWR (in it's original version) and longer "tongue" puts more stress on the frame than a 21', but both have the same frame rail size. Even if the 21' GVWR is increased substantially from the current 4500 pounds (published) or 4600 pounds (placarded on some trailers), I would not expect a structural issue with continuing the same construction and size of rail.

I think trailer frame rail sizing is usually far from optimized to the "just enough" size of steel, because - unlike motor vehicles - they are built from readily available standard sizes.

What about potential (and likely substantial) weight increase in the 5.0TA? I'm sure Reace has considered that, but it will be interesting to see if there is a change.

[davescape]

Originally Posted by davescape

My tag indicates 3665 lbs dry with dual glazing, ac, twin 6 volts, storage box, spray foam, extra insul, and a few electronics goodies that don't add up to a whole bunch.

EDIT EDIT EDIT. Seems I threw a bad number out there. I don't know where that came from. Sorry. My dry weight is 3326 lbs as I wrote in an earlier post. Don't know where that other number came from. I doubt any 19 could get significantly higher than that. My axles are rated @ 2500 lbs (I confirmed the decal is correct by looking for a label on the axle itself). Here's a comparison between my previous 2014 (RIP) and the 2016:
GVWR: 4000 / 5000
Dry: 3021 / 3326
Cargo Cap: 979 / 1674

More than likely the previous frame/axle assembly was under-rated and the new model GVWR simply reflects the real capacity. The 300 lb weight increase is modest. Roughly half of that increase was probably the addition of the extra glass, the front box and the insulation. I doubt that i'll be much over 4000 lbs loaded with the water and propane tanks filled. I'm on a road trip shortly and if the scales are available I'll post the results.

[float5]

Escape posts dry weights on their specs which is without options. The 19' has previously been 2510 and 2610. Don't know what the figure is for the new model.

I see that you are referring to your particular weight with options.

[cpaharley2008]

Thanks for double checking your numbers, these newer figures are more in line with general consensus of what the 19 new model will weigh.