2017 Builds - Conversation and Information

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Rossue

Everything riding in the truck behind the rear axle gets added to the tongue weight.

No, everything there contributes to the Gross Vehicle Weight (which must be less than Gross Vehicle Weight Rating), and contributes more than it's own weight to the rear axle load (which must be less than the Gross Axle Weight Rating - Rear), but is not on the hitch and thus not subject to the truck's tongue weight rating. The box of stuff against the tailgate is fine, regardless of hitch load, as long as the GVWR and GAWR are not exceeded.

Some people who don't check the load in the truck or the axle loads take a shortcut and just assume that if they count all cargo behind the axle against the hitch weight limit then everything will work out fine. Maybe, maybe not - maybe that's overly restrictive. Just check all the limits and there's no need add shortcut rules.

[Rossue]

My mistake; it does count when using a WDH:

https://www.etrailer.com/question-56529.html

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Rossue

My mistake; it does count when using a WDH:

https://www.etrailer.com/question-56529.html

Nope - still doesn't count. If you read the explanation in the linked item - which is just a quick-and-dirty answer by a hitch retailer and not technical documentation - it really just says that weight in the truck affects the adjustment (not the capacity) of the WDH. It could also affect spring bar selection, but every Escape is light enough that the lowest-capacity available model of the majority of WDHs ("600 pound") is more than enough. That's true - the more you have in the back of the truck, the lower the truck's rear suspension will sit and thus the more the WDH head will need to be tilted to get the spring bar deflection required - but that makes no difference to the hitch weight capacity of either the truck or the hitch hardware.

The question was about a statement on the eTrailer website, which is simply erroneous; the linked answer reveals that there is no justification for the basic statement. The statement which led to the question is this:

To determine the proper weight rating for a weight-distribution system, you must first determine your trailer's tongue weight. Then add to that the weight of the cargo behind the rear axle of your tow GMC Yukon. These two measurements make up the tongue weight rating for a weight-distribution system.

It appears multiple times in the eTrailer site as they reuse their stock text regarding WD system selection. It doesn't say that the cargo-behind-axle weight counts against the truck's hitch weight limit, only that it should be considered in sizing the WD system. It's also incorrect: if you adjust a WD system correctly you apply enough torque to counteract the trailer's effect on front axle load, and the cargo-behind-axle weight has nothing to do with that.

With the Andersen No-Sway, instead of head angle (and number of chain links) determining bar deflection it's bracket position and nut position determining polyurethane spring compression, but the logic is the same.

If you just check the GVW and axle load against their limits, check the actual hitch weight against its limit (no adding truck cargo to it), and follow the WDH adjustment instructions, you never need to give any special consideration to the weight in the back of the box, or to understand how it affects the setting you end up with for the WDH.

[cpaharley2008]

I am thinking now to request 3000# axles on Prairie Schooner, the cost should be minimal unless it is considered an option change, then it will be $200. Maybe Dave will check his axles.

[davescape]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

I am thinking now to request 3000# axles on Prairie Schooner, the cost should be minimal unless it is considered an option change, then it will be $200. Maybe Dave will check his axles.

2500 lb according to the decal on the axle.

[cpaharley2008]

Thanks Dave, wonder why Jamman got the higher axles?

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

I am thinking now to request 3000# axles on Prairie Schooner, the cost should be minimal unless it is considered an option change, then it will be $200.

That would be a special-order axle from Dexter, different from every other axle, unless by coincidence a first-generation 21' axle fits a second-generation 19' (in overall width, frame width, and arm angle). A special-order axle would reasonably involve an extra charge - because it would be a quantity of two rather than the couple hundred or so of the same spec that Escape buys each year - although I agree it shouldn't be huge.

[cpaharley2008]

Would not the 21' 2nd generation axle be available? Or the original 21' axle should fit?

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

Would not the 21' 2nd generation axle be available?

The 2nd generation 21' axle will be about 4" wider than the 2nd generation 19' axle, due to the body width difference.

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

Or the original 21' axle should fit?

As I said, maybe:

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

... unless by coincidence a first-generation 21' axle fits a second-generation 19' (in overall width, frame width, and arm angle).

In this case, close might count for the overall width, but the mounting brackets need to match the frame exactly.

Of course, this is an easy question for Reace to answer, as he knows (and defined himself) all of the axle specs for both generations of all models.

[gbaglo]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

I am thinking now to request 3000# axles on Prairie Schooner, the cost should be minimal unless it is considered an option change, then it will be $200. Maybe Dave will check his axles.

What are you trying to accomplish?

[escape artist]

Originally Posted by gbaglo

What are you trying to accomplish?

Hi: gbaglo... Prolly wants to cart along a cast iron cook stove on the rear of his "Prairie Schooner"!!! Alf
escape artisi N.S. of Lake Erie

[gbaglo]

Guess the oxen ride inside the trailer.

[Iowa Dave]

Never know when you'll need an anvil, the front box looks wide enough to hold a pretty good one. Might run into a roadrunner with a beef for coyotes.
Dave

[Kountrykamper]

I seem to remember something about Jamman ordering heavier axles. I ordered EZ lube axles back in 2013 before they were standard and it was a $50 per axle add.

[jamman]

I asked for the 3,000# axles - total cost was $100. Reace said up front he would not change any of the numbers on the sticker: GVWR, GAWR, etc.

See: http://www.escapeforum.org/forums/f1...14-a-3146.html

[RandS]

Maybe this is old news (and I missed the posting) but I thought I pass along what I just received from ETI:

"The dry weights for the 2017 Escape 19’ and 21’ are as follows:

19’: 2950 lbs.
21’: 3210 lbs."


The information on the website has not been updated. The 19 gained more weight than the 21 in the upgrade.

[Patandlinda]

Originally Posted by RandS

Maybe this is old news (and I missed the posting) but I thought I pass along what I just received from ETI:

"The dry weights for the 2017 Escape 19’ and 21’ are as follows:

19’: 2950 lbs.
21’: 3210 lbs."


The information on the website has not been updated. The 19 gained more weight than the 21 in the upgrade.

Wow that is a increase of around 400 lbs . Doesn't mean anything to me though with my TV . Pat

[Rossue]

When we ordered our 21 in May 2014 the stated dry weight on ETI's website was 3050 lbs.

[cpaharley2008]

Seems like a gain of 70# for the 21 and 340# for the 19? seems odd?

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by RandS

Maybe this is old news (and I missed the posting) but I thought I pass along what I just received from ETI:

"The dry weights for the 2017 Escape 19’ and 21’ are as follows:
19’: 2950 lbs.
21’: 3210 lbs."


The information on the website has not been updated. The 19 gained more weight than the 21 in the upgrade.

19': 2950 - 2610 = 340 pound increase
21': 3210 - 3140 = 70 pound increase

The 21' value doesn't make sense to me, since it is much less increase than previously discussed, and so much less than the increase for the 19'.

Thanks for passing on this information, but it would be really nice if correct and authoritative information was on the website specification pages.