Furnace change on Escape 21 a shocker

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by reace

I don't think replacing the grill is going to be as easy as that. What the mock up doesn't show is the flex pipe attached to the centre circular grill to direct the hot air out...leaving the surrounding vent holes for intake air.

This is a good point. I had mentioned the rotating centre section, but not this connection. A custom-punched metal panel would need a flanged centre hole to match the 5" diameter duct, connected to the duct and fitted with a round grill; the intake louvers surrounding it would need to be varying lengths to fill the space. the result will look essentially like the stock grill, but with punched louvers (like the old furnace) rather than slots in plastic. It's certainly do-able, but it won't be easy.

This image is from the Atwood manual...

[thoer]

Bob, Steve and Brian - I agree with all your points. It just seem inexcusable that Atwood didn't take advantage of the redesign to make it more efficient - at a minimum in electrical draw if not LP usage.

Especially when they are making Reace go to all this extra work!

[Rossue]

With U-Shape dinettes in the 21 could the rear bench depth be extended to be flush with end of the filler board and accommodate the heater? For us that wouldn't be a problem as we always use at least one filler board. It could be centered and blow towards the front.

When we turn the heater on it heats up the trailer very quick- really about as fast as the 17's did that was more centrally located.

[cpaharley2008]

I believe Reace already answered this question. See #116

[Ron in BC]

Originally Posted by steve dunham

Standard residential furnaces have 80 to 82 % AFE ( Non Condensing) so 75 % is not that terrible

Not any more in this part of the world. It's high efficiency or nothing. Mid-efficiency furnaces are no longer allowed.

Ron

[Rossue]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

I believe Reace already answered this question. See #116

That's not how I read his response; he was referring to the present location. I just measured and it would be 1/2 a filler board to equate the 23 inches front to rear that the nightstand offers.

[steve dunham]

Originally Posted by Ron in BC

Not any more in this part of the world. It's high efficiency or nothing. Mid-efficiency furnaces are no longer allowed.

Ron

Canada' s residential energy code is far more advanced than the code in the US . (IMHO) Minnesota has an energy code named " Category One" which is similar to Canada's " R 2000" but most homes I have worked on do not comply. Our residential energy code is influenced too much by home builders and politics . When I built my cabin in Northern Wisconsin ,I installed R 35 Walls ,R 60 ceilings ,R 40 floors and Low E argon filled windows which the locals found quite strange because there is no building code nor inspection in our county.
Some day we may catch up to Canada.

[PGDriver]

Originally Posted by reace

I don't think replacing the grill is going to be as easy as that. What the mock up doesn't show is the flex pipe attached to the centre circular grill to direct the hot air out...leaving the surrounding vent holes for intake air.

I painted a grill last night, however it says it need 5-7 days cure for proper performance on plastic. So although I think it looks much better painted light brown, the real test is to see how durable it is. The info on the paint suggests nothing hotter than 93 C. I had one running yesterday for about 3 hrs and the hottest I got the grill was 77C so the paint shouldn't fail due to heat.

Reace

Hi Reace I like the look of the new grill, hope someone posts a picture of it installed on 5.0TA in black for us to see...

Cheers
Doug

[Brian B-P]

This comment was specific to Canada, and applicable to residential (rather than RV) installations:

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

I'm not sure where the claims of "high efficiency" are coming from, since it is unchanged from the previous model and it is 76%; that's poor by even mid-efficiency standards for residential furnaces, and far from what is currently known as "high efficiency" (which is at least 90% and typically 95% efficient). It has not been legal to sell a less than high-efficiency furnace for a house in Canada since five years ago.

I have no idea of efficiency requirements - if any - in the U.S. or for RVs in either country. My point is just that 76% efficiency is not great by modern standards, and not an improvement. It still beats old (last century) home furnaces without draft inducer blowers.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by PGDriver

... hope someone posts a picture of it installed on 5.0TA in black for us to see...

Interesting point. I assume that as the first units of each model reach the interior finishing stage then Friday photos from ETI will start showing the new furnace installation in the other models (in which the location will not have changed).

[dfandrews]

Originally Posted by steve dunham

Canada' s residential energy code is far more advanced than the code in the US ......

May we change that to "more advanced than some in the US." California, for instance, is almost extreme in some regards.

As has been mentioned, the trailer itself is not well insulated. But every bit helps, including dual pane windows, though they are metal framed. And infiltration (think: wind-induced drafts) is virtually under the complete control of the occupant. Remember, the real target goal originally was to "beat the performance of a tent.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Rossue

That's not how I read his response; he was referring to the present location. I just measured and it would be 1/2 a filler board to equate the 23 inches front to rear that the nightstand offers.

I don't know if front-to-back length is the concern, but now I'm thinking it's the problem. The new furnace is 20" long - that's 5/8" shorter than the old one - but it does need 1.5" between it and the inside cabinet face, totalling 21.5". In contrast the old one protrudes through the cabinet face and needs only 20.5" from the inside of the trailer shell to the outside cabinet face. Does the non-U-shape dinette seat have less than 21.5" inside dimension from face to shell?

Also, perhaps the intake/exhaust fitting is a concern, since it would need to sit square against the shell; it is placed differently from the old one.

This drawing from the AF Series installation manual is a side view of the unducted installation (outside of trailer on the left).

[cpaharley2008]

Hi Reace I like the look of the new grill, hope someone posts a picture of it installed on 5.0TA in black for us to see...

Cheers
Doug

I thought this change was for the 21' model trailer only, not the 5.0 TA?

[Jim Bennett]

REACE, if you are reading this whole thread, I certainly hope you are chuckling and not shaking your head.

[Rossue]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

Hi Reace I like the look of the new grill, hope someone posts a picture of it installed on 5.0TA in black for us to see...

Cheers
Doug

I thought this change was for the 21' model trailer only, not the 5.0 TA?

All Escapes are getting the new Atwood; only the 21's present location has to be changed.

[Rossue]

Originally Posted by Jim Bennett

REACE, if you are reading this whole thread, I certainly hope you are chuckling and not shaking your head.

.....especially at people talking about everything else except the issue with the 21's furnace being relocated. No other model is affected by this new heater and as such those with 17/19 & 5.0 TA don't have to consider the domino effect on aesthetics or storage.

[steve dunham]

Originally Posted by dfandrews

May we change that to "more advanced than some in the US." California, for instance, is almost extreme in some regards.

As has been mentioned, the trailer itself is not well insulated. But every bit helps, including dual pane windows, though they are metal framed. And infiltration (think: wind-induced drafts) is virtually under the complete control of the occupant. Remember, the real target goal originally was to "beat the performance of a tent.

Many US states have effective energy code on paper but purposely have no means of enforcement ,so the law / codes are meaningless . I believe raising the efficiency of a trailer furnace from 75% to 90% is a balancing act between initial cost and the cost of operation. It appears that the majority of RV owners are not fulltiming and are mainly camping in moderate weather. Saving 15% on fuel costs is relative to the amount of fuel being consumed. If one consumes only a couple of tanks of propane a year , ,is a 15 % fuel savings that significant ?

[J Mac]

Originally Posted by Rossue

.....especially at people talking about everything else except the issue with the 21's furnace being relocated. No other model is affected by this new heater and as such those with 17/19 & 5.0 TA don't have to consider the domino effect on aesthetics or storage.

I'd like to hear more on the domino effect on aesthetics and storage. I like a good domino effect.

[mk1549]

Originally Posted by rbryan4

Yep. See my post #98. They have many styles, like these for example. Sure look better than that plastic grill, although like you, I have no idea what they charge.

very pretty

[Loren & Cathy]

Originally Posted by Jim Bennett

REACE, if you are reading this whole thread, I certainly hope you are chuckling and not shaking your head.

After with what he has had to put up with this last week, he probably will need a good stiff shot of something potent. Having to redesign and keep everyone happy can be pretty trying. Loren