Photo mock-up and floorplan for new 5.0

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by escape artist

I'm certain he has thought of some form of damping for the new axles, and will use whatever his supplier suggests is appropriate!

Probably true - I'm just asking what that is, and explaining why that might be the (perhaps optional) inclusion of shocks.

I agree - nothing needs to be reinvented.

[padlin]

My single axle hybrid has leaf springs, no dampening other then the links that connect the leafs to the frame move fore and aft as the leafs flex. I had to replace the links last winter as the bolt holes had elongated in time. I was told this may have caused early tire wear issues I had. Too soon to know if they were really the cause.

I'd prefer the shocks but no shocks would not prevent me from buying the unit. It's hard to tell if weight has much to do with the selection process, the 5er is pretty light.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Burloak

In my professional opinion the damping requirements of a particular suspension system design has everything to do with its design characteristics and expected loading and very little to do with whatever "premium" means in trailer marketing.

I agree. The characteristics I want are well-controlled suspension action and smooth ride. With a leaf-spring axle, that requires the additional damping of shocks.

Originally Posted by Burloak

Fifth wheels have lower sprung weight vs a conventional trailer of the same mass. That in turn lowers the spring rates required to carry the remaining towed mass.

No, I don't think the sprung-to -unsprung ratio is a big deal, but even if it were unusually low spring rates would call for damping for control. I note that the springs (and therefore the spring rates) used in the commodity suspensions under fifth-wheels are exactly those used in the same suspensions under other trailers. The axle capacity determines the springs, regardless of the rest of the trailer... just as the current Escape 5.0 uses a normal Torflex the same as the 17' with the same axle capacity.

Originally Posted by Burloak

Close coupled axles don't react simultaneously but rather in sequence and symbiotically to road input. We don't anything about the designers assumptions regarding input amplitude and frequency. I've said before that if you only travel smooth roads you don't even need the springs.

Real tandem suspensions on real roads need springs and damping for acceptance behavior. If damping by interleaf friction is insufficient (as it typically is in packs of only four or five leaves) shocks are the solution. I thought we weren't designing a suspension here?

Originally Posted by Burloak

I'm sure if the chassis engineer determines the suspension system needs shocks it will get them, if it doesn't it won't be changing my mind regarding the quality of the escape product.

Reace is the chassis designer; I just asked if anyone knew his choice, and explained why I expected it might include shocks. I am not challenging Escape quality - I wouldn't be interested in the new trailer's equipment if I didn't respect Escape Trailer Industries and its product.

I now regret asking, as I would accept any answer - I would just add shocks if not factory-supplied. My question was also intended to benefit others who might soon be in a position to finalize option choices and might not be willing to add shocks themselves, but all the red herrings about tightly coupled suspension systems and unsprung weight probably killed any hope of clear understanding.

Is that why all the concern: is a simple question about components seen as a criticism of the design? It's not, it's just a question... like people asking what size of tires are supplied.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by padlin

My single axle hybrid has leaf springs, no dampening other then the links that connect the leafs to the frame move fore and aft as the leafs flex.

Same with my Boler. Adding shocks smoothed the ride and improved control.
That link (the shackle) is needed but doesn't add useful dampening, which means absorbing energy.

Originally Posted by padlin

I'd prefer the shocks but no shocks would not prevent me from buying the unit.

Same here.

Originally Posted by padlin

It's hard to tell if weight has much to do with the selection process, the 5er is pretty light.

No, the weight's a red herring: a small car and a huge bus both use shocks, for the same reason.

[Minnie]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

Reace is the chassis designer; I just asked if anyone knew his choice.

This may be a bit simplistic, so forgive me, but why don't you email Reace and then post his response here for anyone else who would like to know?

Just a thought.
Christine

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Minnie

This may be a bit simplistic, so forgive me, but why don't you email Reace and then post his response here for anyone else who would like to know?

Yes, that's sensible, and that's what Jim Bennett suggested many posts ago. I was just asking here if anyone already knew (and of course if Reace wanted to reply here he could)... before the "you shouldn't even ask about shocks" reaction occurred. Maybe we're over that and sanity can reign again.

I have asked Reace by e-mail; it is not urgent and so I did not press for a reply, but I'll share it when I get one.

[Brian B-P]

Reace has not had a chance to respond to my query yet, and today while waiting I checked the Bigfoot detailed features and options list. I note that while shocks are not available for the single-axle 17.5' model, shocks are standard equipment for the Bigfoot 21' and 25' models. All Bigfoot trailers use leaf springs, and those 21' and 25' models have tandem axles. As Escape is moving into larger trailer sizes, Bigfoot (the other major Canadian moulded fiberglass travel trailer brand, also located in British Columbia) becomes an increasingly direct competitor.

Whether or not the shocks are required, or even desirable, it seems reasonable to me to ask if they will be available or included.

[cpaharley2008]

I remember a member on FGRV selling a 21' Bigfoot in 2012 that had a custom air suspension installed. Boy was that a sweet setup.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

I remember a member on FGRV selling a 21' Bigfoot in 2012 that had a custom air suspension installed. Boy was that a sweet setup.

Cool ... do I hear another Escape customization request brewing?

I'll have to look that one up, although of course I have no intention of buying a Bigfoot!

[reace]

At this time, I don't intend to install a suspension dampening kit. I have very little experience towing RV trailers equipped with spring axles. Once the first 5.0 TA is out, I will play around with it and should know quite quickly if it is necessary.

Tammy is pushing hard to take number 1 or 2 down to the Texas Bluebonnet rally in April. If all works, this will be a good test for it!

Today I just received progress pictures from the fiberglass company building the plug. Very cool...I will have them up soon!

Reace

[Vicki A.]

The cat is out of the bag!!!!! Tammy and Reace, with a 5 TA at Bluebonnet...keep your fingers crossed gang!!!

[Donna D.]

I can only imagine how excited the folks from the Texas area might be to meet Reace and Tammy. Especially those that had a trailer shipped and the owners never made it to the factory... and second owners of trailers too!

The Bluebonnet is on my bucket list!

Patiently waiting on pictures of the plug....

[escape artist]

Originally Posted by reace

At this time, I don't intend to install a suspension dampening kit. I have very little experience towing RV trailers equipped with spring axles. Once the first 5.0 TA is out, I will play around with it and should know quite quickly if it is necessary.

Tammy is pushing hard to take number 1 or 2 down to the Texas Bluebonnet rally in April. If all works, this will be a good test for it!

Today I just received progress pictures from the fiberglass company building the plug. Very cool...I will have them up soon!

Reace

Hi: reace... I'm waiting to view the pic's too!!!
I've heard that Texas is nice in April. Sounds a good test run destination to me!!!
I've started my count down to retirement at week 5. Can't wait for the time to travel. Alf
escape artist N.S. of Lake Erie

[Brian B-P]

Thanks for the info, Reace!

Originally Posted by reace

I have very little experience towing RV trailers equipped with spring axles. Once the first 5.0 TA is out, I will play around with it and should know quite quickly if it is necessary.

A suggestion:
The most economical and practical shock installation would likely be Dexter's kit (their part no. K71-175-01; two of them for the tandem axles). The top mounts weld onto the frame, and the bottom mounts replace the standard tie plates, so they're trivial to install as the frame is being built, and much more difficult later. If you install the brackets on that first trailer, then you can easily pop the shocks on and off (even just one axle if desired) if you want to try them out... even at a roadside stop.

[cpaharley2008]

Originally Posted by Vicki A.

The cat is out of the bag!!!!! Tammy and Reace, with a 5 TA at Bluebonnet...keep your fingers crossed gang!!!

May have to put this one on my calendar, 25 hours is a lot closer than Osoyoos to meet Tammy and Reace.

[Donna D.]

For those interested in the Bluebonnet. Last year reservations opened on Dec. 15. By Dec. 19 there were 126 trailers registered... there's only 130 sites! There was a long wait list and 40+ trailer owners never got to go to the 2013 Bluebonnet. Plan ahead!

[Nilotica]

I will be going! Still trailer less but going, if I could talk hubby into a truck instead if an SUV I would have order the new 5. Darn him! He needs the SUV to carry his RC Heli's around. I guess I could get a truck for me but I love the mileage my Versa gets for everyday driving. After I see it I might change my mind and it would not be to late to change my order.

[daveandsandyclink]

I think I said rallies are popular in Texas. This is a great place for Escape Industries to show their new 5.0 and convert some more Casitians. I can just see the continuous long line of lookers now. However because this rally gets bigger every year with just 180 sites available, it's going to be very hard for all Escape owners who would like to attend to get reservations. I was thinking it would be cool to have an rendezvous nearby the weekend before or after Bluebonnet for an Escape "welcome" gathering and a chance to see the newest 5.0. This is just an idea at this point and would depend on Tammy & Reace and their travel schedule. Those lucky enough to get in Bluebonnet could still attend both.

[J Mac]

Where can I find out more about the Bluebonnet?

[Donna D.]

Originally Posted by J Mac

Where can I find out more about the Bluebonnet?

There will be two places for info: 2014 Bluebonnet Rally - Casita Travel Trailer Forum and Bluebonnet Casita Rally - Home although the Casita Forum will always be the most current!