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Old 07-19-2016, 06:05 PM   #21
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You realize that the clean water you drink is result of bureaucracy eh?
And your food isn't contaminated with e-coli because of bureaucracy? And the steering wheel shaft isn't piercing your chest because of bureaucracy?
Hi: gbaglo... You also realize that lawyers on both sides of the border get fat feeding on BUREAUCRAZY!!! Alf
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Old 07-19-2016, 06:05 PM   #22
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I wonder, but I think it is more a case of government bureaucracy just creating more bureaucracy because that is really all they do. The bureaucracy doesn't solve problems, or prevent problems from occurring it just jumps in after the fact with an insatiable demand for documentation. Individual employees in the government don't have the incentive to make things more efficient or the authority to decide that a rule doesn't make sense, they just have to make sure the correct documentation is provided and they will get to reading it whenever they can.
Job protection?

I do realize that we need guidelines and standards for manufacturers to adhere to for the protection of the consumer. Long gone is buyer beware, but to be fair, many buyers are just not wary. They just don't know the ins and outs of the product very well. BUT, I have witnessed many a time like this where it has gone too far. There are already codes to follow in Canadian manufacturing.

I am sure Escape will get through this and then have it down pat. It will just either cost them or the consumer for the added costs in time to comply. I only glanced the link from Janet, but I saw one part where the forms must be mailed in with an ink signature, that is a very dated requirement costing more time and money. Heck, I just did a $500k real estate deal with an e-signature, and have done hordes of stuff with signed emails.
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Old 07-19-2016, 06:11 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Janet H View Post
It looks like this is what may have changed - note the update is just a week old for these regs. A terribly tough situation for both buyers and Escape http://www.nhtsa.gov/cars/rules/maninfo/trailer002.pdf
Thanks Janet. I wasn't planning to dig into detailed documents, but I skimmed this one, and it both correlates with the information from NHTSA that I linked earlier, and provides some detail about issues the Sarah mentioned.

Where did you see an update date from a week ago? The document was created on 2007-11-07 1017:48 AM (eight and half years ago), this year (the string "2016") doesn't occur in the document, and the only effective dates mentioned are in 2005. Was a recent update mentioned on a web page where you found a link to this document?

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Hi: All... What would happen if during a World Series game the "Gubermint" changed the rules... Eh? Alf
escape artist N.S. of Lake Erie
That would be bad, but I don't see any indication of a "during play" change in this document.

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This is protectionism at it's best... and I only read to page 5!!!
I skimmed those first five pages, and although they (plus the next four) set requirements for foreign manufacturers, I didn't see anything close to unreasonable or protectionist... but of course that's a personal opinion. It looks like a lot of paperwork, but it's mostly just a detailed description of the one-time setup of an agent.

The later parts of the document (starting at page 10) apply to all manufacturers (foreign or not), and include this:
Quote:
The VIN shall consist of four sections of characters which
shall be grouped accordingly:
...
(b) The second section shall consist of five characters, which occupy positions four through
eight (4-8) in the VIN. This section shall uniquely identify the attributes of the vehicle as
specified in Table I.
...
Table I -Type of Vehicle and Information Decipherable
Passenger car: Line, series, body type, engine type and restraint system type.
Multipurpose passenger vehicle: Line, series, body type, engine type, gross vehicle weight rating.
Truck: Model or line, series, chassis, cab type, engine type, brake system and gross vehicle weight
rating.
Bus: Model or line, series, body type, engine type, and brake system.
Trailer, including trailer kits and incomplete trailer: Type of trailer, body type, length and axle
configuration
...
There's a "VIN Decoding Requirements" issue which may be the one that Sarah mentioned: current Escape VINs don't appear to provide this information readily. This section of the VIN for an Escape 17' is "TF6A2", while the same section for an Escape 19' is "TF6B2"; there's only one character difference, yet they are different lengths and have different axle configurations. The example on page 18 (which isn't part of the rules, just a helpful example) shows a more typical configuration of this section of a VIN.
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Old 07-19-2016, 06:14 PM   #24
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Bureaucracy keeps a company from building a carcass rendering facility on the lot next to yours.
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Old 07-19-2016, 06:15 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by gbaglo View Post
You realize that the clean water you drink is result of bureaucracy eh?
And your food isn't contaminated with e-coli because of bureaucracy? And the steering wheel shaft isn't piercing your chest because of bureaucracy?
And Takata airbags aren't blowing shrapnel in your face because of bureaucracy?

Sorry, I have worked many years in the FDA regulated medical industry and believe that the FDA is responsible for killing far more people than their regulations have ever saved. And, I worked many years in the Defense Industry and $600.00 is a bargain for a cheap plastic toilet seat. $5.00 for the molded plastic and $595.00 for the paperwork burden.
I also don't believe that people, companies, engineers, production workers get up in the morning and go to work with a desire to design and build shoddy products. They aren't being forced to do good work because of government policies but those policies often lead to shortcuts and production and design delays which end up causing serious safety issues and huge cost impacts.

The Hartford Steam Boiler Company is a very good example of businesses solving a major problem without government interference.

I also think that the clean water I drink is the result of people deciding that they want clean water therefore an industry can provide it and not a government mandate.
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Old 07-19-2016, 06:19 PM   #26
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I wonder if it is possible to go back to the procedure several years ago whereby trailers were picked up by the new US owners and transported (imported) by the individual.
An interesting option, but under current U.S. rules that may not be easy, either.
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Old 07-19-2016, 06:19 PM   #27
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And Takata airbags aren't blowing shrapnel in your face because of bureaucracy?
Had my say, but vehicles with those airbags are being recalled, because of bureaucracy.
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Old 07-19-2016, 06:21 PM   #28
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You realize that the clean water you drink is result of bureaucracy eh?
And your food isn't contaminated with e-coli because of bureaucracy? And the steering wheel shaft isn't piercing your chest because of bureaucracy?
"hmmmmm, you're papers do not appear to be in order"
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Old 07-19-2016, 06:23 PM   #29
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I only glanced the link from Janet, but I saw one part where the forms must be mailed in with an ink signature, that is a very dated requirement costing more time and money. Heck, I just did a $500k real estate deal with an e-signature, and have done hordes of stuff with signed emails.
Yes, but that's a description of a process from a decade ago. The current NHTSA Manufacturer Portal replaces most - perhaps all - of these paper processes.
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Old 07-19-2016, 06:24 PM   #30
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"hmmmmm, you're papers do not appear to be in order"
I know nuthink....
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