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Old 11-24-2013, 09:20 AM   #51
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andersen camping leveler

During our two week trip home in the 21 we used the stabilizers and the bal chocks between the wheels and had no shaking at all. We would at times not un-hook and use just the rear stabilizers, one chock and the tongue jack and that just about eliminated all movement.
We are now about finished with the details and ready to go somewhere soon. The additional filter is under the sink, the satellite radio is hooked up, the new smaller size tandem wheel covers from CW fit perfectly and I don't need to install four separate ones now and all of the pictures and misc. is hanging on the walls to make it ours, we are ready to go. Maybe even to Texas in the spring and/or BC before OR.
Jack and Nancy of Tucson
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Old 11-24-2013, 12:14 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by barry View Post
Going from a 17B to a 5.0 "Classic" I found the 5.0 a lot easier to level because of the independent front power jacks. Putting the front drivers side up will make the rear passenger side dip down and vice versa.
The front jacks are well forward of the axle, so tilting the trailer this way is also twisting it - I wouldn't do it without also pushing up on the high side with a jack behind the axle. When you twist a car this way - jacking up just one front corner - you can often feel that the doors don't fit properly until it is put back down, and car structures are stiffer than trailers.
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Old 11-24-2013, 12:54 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by floorpanel View Post
Under the features section on the 21 it states that it has front and rear scissor stabilizer jacks. They may not be heavy enough to actually lift the trailer
That's what the web page says, but other discussions suggest that Escape only briefly used scissor jacks, and normally uses single-leg jacks. I just saw the whole lineup and the factory, and I thought I saw single-leg jacks on the 21, not scissors.

The issue isn't really the strength of the jack structure - even the lightest single-leg BAL Light Trailer Stabilizer can handle half a ton of load each. The problem is that the screw, nut, and thrust bearing of a stabilizing jack (single-leg or scissor) are not designed to be turned under full load (so that model can only lift 700 pounds); only a lifting jack is designed for that. The BAL "T" Type is similar (but bigger). I installed BAL Light Trailer Stabilizers under my current trailer (similar to an Escape 17) and the nut and thrust bearing parts are vastly inferior to the corresponding parts on any scissors jack I've seen for lifting a car to change a tire.

BAL "C" Jacks are good for lifting, but don't come in a lightweight model. I don't know if that is what Escape is installing, but if it is I woud have no issue lifting with them. The jacks in the earlier frame photo, and my vague memory of what I saw at the factory, do look like "C" jacks... if they are BAL.
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Old 11-24-2013, 01:02 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by thoer View Post
With that rear overhang way past the stabilizer, it might give real credence to the "If the trailer is a rockin', don't come a knockin'" stickers I have seen.....
But having the stabilizers close to the suspension is better for preventing suspension bounce. When I added stabilizers (to a non-Escape trailer similar to an Escape 17), I placed then as close to the axle as practical structurally.
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Old 11-24-2013, 01:11 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by cpaharley2008 View Post
There maybe an issue with your torsion suspension if you try to level your trailer side to side with scissors jacks, raising the trailer but not the suspension to a point where the trailer may be level but the wheels and torsion axle on high side are fully compressed whereas the wheels/axle on the low side are fully extended. Using wheel levelers would not cause this issue. Just a thought.
Good to think about potential issues but I don't see any suspension concerns. The two sides of the Torflex system are completely independent in action so it does't matter if they are compressed different amounts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thoer View Post
Jim - I always use all 4 to some degree, so I don't think that should be the case as even on the low side there is at least some lifting with the Jack. Does that make sense? And if it is really far off I use my Legos! LOL
I agree with Eric. The suspension on the low side doesn't get compressed any more than just sitting on level ground with no jacks. Extending the suspension is certainly harmless to it.

The only concern I see is for the frame if too much load is taken off the axle to jacks further out toward the ends of the frame... and as Eric said, blocks are used if that much difference (which is only a couple of inches) is needed.
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Old 11-24-2013, 02:50 PM   #56
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When we got our 17b, I asked if we could get the Scissor jacks. We had seen Eric and Mary's Trailer, and Eric was quite positive about the benefits of the scissor jacks. But Reace talked us out of them saying they were overkill for our trailer, and when Dave did our orientation he emphasized the importance of not using the stabilizers to level the trailer -- not because they couldn't support the trailer, but because of concerns about twisting the frame.
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Old 11-24-2013, 03:06 PM   #57
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Bottom line is, why level the trailer at all with any kind of stabilizer, when it is really easy to do so with other types of blocking under the wheels?

We have the trailer levelled side-to-side in less than two minutes, usually quicker, and we tend to camp on lots of uneven spots, not the nice close to level ones found in campgrounds.

Letting the axles take the weight only makes sense to me, most of the support will come from them, and the stabilizers just.....well, stabilize.
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Old 11-24-2013, 04:04 PM   #58
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It is much safer to go with the standard stabilizers and follow closely all advice from Reace and his employees, I withdraw any and all suggestions about getting the more heavy duty ones. (It is probably wise to just stop reading here)

I don't want to draw this out, nor be didactic and by no means do I want to counter what Reace or Dave say, but I have a bit of trouble with the frame twisting idea. Given the resilience of the steel tubing the frame is made of I would think it would take much more than the few inches of adjustment that I do with the scissors jack to twist the frame. If the frame were very easily twisted then one improperly placed jack used to change a tire should cause far more twisting force than I am ever putting on it in leveling at 5 jack points.

If I were to use one jack alone and jack that corner up and leave it that way for months in storage I could see how those long term forces could cause twisting. But with all five jacks applied slowly and using them only for the few inches of fine tuning I do, I can't see how it could apply much twisting force. Even using the standard stabilizers is placing some twisting pressure on the frame, as they have to be tight enough to take some of the trailer weight or else they won't stabilize anything. Unless you are using a torque wrench to make sure each stabilizer is at exactly the same force.
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Old 11-24-2013, 06:01 PM   #59
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I understand what you're saying, Eric. I think it may help to keep in mind that most well-designed instructions correctly assume that most users will not be careful or understand what they are doing.
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Old 11-24-2013, 06:04 PM   #60
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Re:

With that rear overhang way past the stabilizer, it might give real credence to the "If the trailer is a rockin', don't come a knockin'" stickers I have seen.....
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We have found that the smaller the trailer and the lighter the mass that it is very easy to move the trailer even if we aren't doing much. The stabilizers on the 15 are BAL "C" and I added pads and these bars made by BAL. They lift when the stabilizers are taken up. They work great although I may have to adjust them as the mounting bracket may interfere with a jack when needed.
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