Electric Assist Bicycle

[Eggscape]

Yes the battery and seat remove easy to stow securely in the vehicle.

[John in Santa Cruz]

guessing a 48V 15AH (?) battery is around 8-9 lbs, as the 48V 18AH I have is nearly 12 lbs.

one 60 lb bike on the back of a Escape is fine, its when you have two that you'd be in trouble.

[Bobbie54]

Originally Posted by Fox hunt

yes i have the RAD mini, The mini is the only one they had that will work for someone 5'2" . Their new one is nicer has a lower middle bar easier to step over to get on the bike also batteries improve every year.... but for the price i think the RAD is a very nice bike. it fits on my rear bike rack i bought fat tire supports for my rack.

What bike rack do you have? (Sorry if I asked this before...)

[John in Santa Cruz]

phew, i just ordered the parts to convert my brothers 1999 vintage Trek 6000 hardtail mountain bike to an ebike, the prices have gone way up since I last looked a few months ago. ended up being $500 for the TSDZ2 middrive 48V 500W kit (modded with the brass drive gear for better durability, and a manual 'boost' thumb trigger throttle ), and $375 for a 48V 13AH battery that mounts in place of a water bottle holder. Those prices are shipped from a US vendor, as I couldn't find a chinese vendor who had more than a half dozen ratings, and amazon + ebay were useless.

[John in Santa Cruz]

Originally Posted by Bobbie54

What bike rack do you have? (Sorry if I asked this before...)

imho, best RV hitch mount bike rack is the 1up, but they are $$$$. 2nd best is the Swagmann Escapee2

https://www.1up-usa.com/product/2in-...ble-bike-rack/

[MAD escape]

Jumping in late here... Myron, perhaps a Trek Electra Townie might work for you?

You can find them at REI (and use your 20% off coupon, if you are a member ($40 for life, IIRC)). The Townies are designed for a bolt-upright posture while riding and feature a "flat-foot design" (a seat post raked aft more than typical) which moves the seat back as it goes up, thus opening the cockpit for taller riders. My 6'5" long-legged buddy has borrowed mine and pronounced it comfortable. The flat-foot geometry is supposed to allow you to put your feet down on the ground at a stop without getting off the saddle.

The drive system is by Bosch; mid-drive at the cranks, 400 amp-hour battery, type 1 assist (pedal-assist only, no throttle, 20mph max speed) and the bikes can be had with derailleurs front and rear or rear only.

REI has a great test ride policy. I've taken bikes for over an hour to really wring them out.


Dave

[John in Santa Cruz]

Originally Posted by MAD escape

... The drive system is by Bosch; mid-drive at the cranks, 400 amp-hour battery, ...

um, no WAY it a 400 AH battery. maybe 400 WATT hours, its likely either 36V or 48V and 6-10 amp-hour.


if you get one of those Townie Go! bikes, I'd get the 8i 8 speed INTERNAL HUB gear version, so you can shift when stopped. with pedal assist, you NEED to downshift when you stop, and novice and/or casual riders will consistently forget to do this before they stop, with a derailleur you HAVE to be pedalling to shift gears, if you stop in high gear, you're really stuck.

Me, I do NOT like the Townie riding position. ALL your weight is on your bum, I prefer a bike where you're leaning forward enough to balance your weight between the seat, your legs, and your arms. The townie position is terrible for climbing hills (although e-assist will greatly aid you in that).

[MAD escape]

Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz

um, no WAY it a 400 AH battery. maybe 400 WATT hours, its likely either 36V or 48V and 6-10 amp-hour.

Correct! Yes, sorry about that. 400 watts it is.

if you get one of those Townie Go! bikes, I'd get the 8i 8 speed INTERNAL HUB gear version, so you can shift when stopped. with pedal assist, you NEED to downshift when you stop, and novice and/or casual riders will consistently forget to do this before they stop, with a derailleur you HAVE to be pedalling to shift gears, if you stop in high gear, you're really stuck.

Very true. In fact, I have the 8i and would not get one of the other versions, for the fact mentioned above (shifting while stopped is effortless) and because the IGH (internally geared hubs) are much less maintenance (although they do weigh more - but on the electric bike, who cares? ;-) Others might not think the IGH is worth the extra money.

Me, I do NOT like the Townie riding position. ALL your weight is on your bum, I prefer a bike where you're leaning forward enough to balance your weight between the seat, your legs, and your arms. The townie position is terrible for climbing hills (although e-assist will greatly aid you in that).

Riding position - oh so very personal! Often, it comes down to old injuries and what hurts most. Neck issues can keep you off a "road bike" which bends you over enough that you stare at the front tire with your spine kept straight. Wrists are an issue for many with arthritis - which causes one to wish for the more upright position. Not being able to get off the saddle quickly while stopping makes others go for the "flat foot" geometry. And then there's the sore butt issue. This last one I solved on my full suspension MTB by laying out the $100 for a Specialized Body Geometry saddle. That $100 took me from not enjoying a 25 minute ride in padded shorts to happily riding all day with regular street shorts.

All the variables make shopping for a bicycle painful, while offering the ability to ride pain-free if you do your homework... =)

[John in Santa Cruz]

yeah, I don't do the totally bent over position anymore. After much playing around, I found myself most comfortable on my current 'hybrid' bike when the bars are just about as high as the saddle, with a 4" stem and flat/almost straight bars. My motorcycle had much the same riding position, the Europeans call that 'sport touring' as opposed to full out sport-bike.

[jumboscott]

Any Rad owners? Good reviews and they have Christmas special pricing. I like this one;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9FP...ature=youtu.be

[padlin]

Not that I'm interested in getting one, but why do they put such small tires on most of these? Doesn't it make pedaling that much harder?

[Perry Butler]

Originally Posted by padlin

Not that I'm interested in getting one, but why do they put such small tires on most of these? Doesn't it make pedaling that much harder?

In the last 20 years we've been riding recumbents with at least one if not three 20" tires and find the difference negligible. The bike with the highest resistance has knobby tires, especially fat tire bikes.

For ride we have rear suspension on our trikes with 20" tires. We'll be going to Europe this summer for 12 weeks to ride our trikes. We do have smooth, flexible, 50mm, 20" tires for a comfortable ride.

We're about to purchase a Tern Vektron S10 to replace one of our trikes. It folds, is electric, top of the line, and has flexible 50mm, 20" Big Apple tires for comfort.

Oh yeah, with electric bikes you don't have to worry if there is any extra effort pedaling.

Enjoy,

Perry

[Slowpat]

Yes, I have a Radmini. It's an older model and is already outdated. The battery was improved the next year. It doesn't have the range of the new ones nor does it have any shock absorption and I can feel beat up after a long ride in the woods. The newer ones have shocks on the front forks. It is fun to ride.

I upgraded to a Dutch E bike in September. It is like a luxury car when compared to the mini. It does not fold up and is regular bike size but the ride is smooth and my hands do not get numb. The saddle is comfy so does not need replacing. It gets quite a bit of mileage per charge. It is a Gazelle Arroyo and I am loving it.

The Arroyo does not have a throttle so it is harder to get going up a hill or to speed up quickly after stopping at a stop light. I do ride it a bit on gravel roads but it isn't a mountain bike. I still use the Rad for rides in the woods.

[Perry Butler]

Originally Posted by Slowpat

The Arroyo does not have a throttle so it is harder to get going up a hill or to speed up quickly after stopping at a stop light. I do ride it a bit on gravel roads but it isn't a mountain bike. I still use the Rad for rides in the woods.

Throttle ebikes are Class II and are illegal in National Parks. Class I ebikes are legal. On the Tern, and many others, with two clicks of the conveniently located control we can go from Eco to Boost, so you don't need a throttle.

It will be interesting to see how the Tern with 50mm tires will handle gravel roads. I rode mountain bikes in the 80's and most of the 90's, but carpal tunnel drove me to recumbents. Now that I'm retired (school computer coordinator, technology teacher) the carpal tunnel has gone away. I'm excited to try single-track again!

Enjoy,

Perry

[Slowpat]

I've had to walk my Arroyo up a couple of hills after messing up on the shifting. We have some steep grades here. However, this bike is designed so you can downshift while it is stopped. I don't know how, but it has some kind of fancy stuff so you can do that.

Turbo can be used to get going up a hill, but on the steep ones, I'm not fast enough to get the pedal going yet. That's something to consider if you live in a mountain area. I am getting to be "one" with my Arroyo. I have become good at balancing it whilst almost at a standstill at stop signs. It's a well put together bike and feels and handles like a non ebike.

I also get more of a workout on it. It doesn't have the torque of the mini so I must pedal hard in turbo to get up the steep hill to my house. That's something else to consider. The mini is a rear wheel drive Bafang motor and the Arroyo is a mid drive Bosch motor. That makes a difference in the feel of the bike.

I went on a group ride on the mini last July. It was 24 miles and the battery was almost flat and my body suffered. If they have the same ride next year, I'll use the Arroyo.

[Bobbie54]

I have a Rad mini step-through and wouldn't want to ride it without a throttle- but I use that mainly for starting from a standstill. I changed the seat to make it more comfortable and generally it is but haven't ridden it as much as I'd hoped, at least not since I got it in June. Haven't had it camping yet.

[Ron in BC]

Originally Posted by Perryb67

Throttle ebikes are Class II and are illegal in National Parks.

Perry

Didn't know that, guess I'd better not run circles around the Ranger cabin.

Looks like Canadians would be better off with the US version of the Rad. Higher watts than our 500 limit.

I wouldn't worry about about being a few watts over the 500 limit. I worked on this trike for a disabled teen. He chose it over a w/c. . So would I. 2000 watts! I considered it lethal but it sure was fun to test drive. He had had a few incidents with it and I reprogrammed its' output down. Evidently only took him a few minutes to figure out how to dial it up again.

Ron

[MyronL]

Just found this out, online search...

"...In a move being heralded by the electric bicycle community, e-bikes are now permitted to ride in all national parks on any trails open to pedal bicycles.

The new decree came in the form of an order signed under the Trump Administration by Interior Secretary David Bernhardt.

It reclassifies electric bicycles as “non-motorized bicycles” on national park land, removing them from the category of dirt bikes, motorcycles and other gas-powered single or dual-track vehicles. The move comes at a time when electric bicycles are becoming increasingly affordable and thus more popular, with many models starting at just $500-$600.

Previously, electric bicycles were often forbidden from cycling trails in national parks, though Class 1 e-bikes were allowed in some areas."

Note: This pertains only to US national parks.

[padlin]

Originally Posted by Perryb67

In the last 20 years we've been riding recumbents with at least one if not three 20" tires and find the difference negligible. The bike with the highest resistance has knobby tires, especially fat tire bikes.

Oh yeah, with electric bikes you don't have to worry if there is any extra effort pedaling.

Enjoy,

Perry

Thanks for the info Perry. Still hard to wrap my head around little tires making little difference with pedal assist. If I decide to get one some day I'll have to try them before buying. It would be nice being able to ride for 20 or so miles without worrying about being able to make it back.

[Gary252]

Retired after 45 years owning a bike shop. My wife and I have 2 electric bikes each. I have used a Giant Quick-E for my last two years commuting to work-20 miles round trip. My wife has a Liv Amiti. We use these bikes for our recreational street/bikepath riding. The Quick-e is a Class 3 (28mph), the Amiti a Class 1. Yes, I use my Class 3 bike on Class 1 bike paths, illegal, however if you obey the speed limits, usually 15mph why is anybody going to inspect my bike? I am a very courteous rider and have never been questioned about my bike. The Class 3 was definitely valuable when I was commuting.

We purchased two off road bikes for our road trips, after finding some limitations with the recreational/commuter bikes on dirt roads when we are boondocking. I have a Giant Trance E-1 Pro and my wife has a Liv Intrigue E. These are Class 1 trail bikes. These bikes are perfect for our road trips where I never really know where we'll end up or what type of trails we will experience. I use a Kuat NV hitch platform rack, which will accept the weight of e-bikes. I always remove the batteries from the bikes when transporting, which reduces the weight about 16-17 lbs.

All of our bikes are pedal assist only

Yes, these bikes are expensive but our Giant and Liv bikes have proven to be very durable, minimal service and just plain a lot of fun. I have seen comments on throttles, I really don't see the need on either a commuter or off-road bike. My opinion. The important factors are motor power, size and range of battery, range of pedal support and most important, investing in a bike company that will be around to provide support and parts (batteries) down the road. While I had my shop we had many people buy obscure, off-brand e-bikes online and bring them in for repair. Many of these use unique wiring, battery mounts etc that are not available here in the states. Saw many that spent $1,000+. on a bike or kit and find the manufacturer is unresponsive and parts not available.

My shop sold Giant, Liv and Specialized bikes. Trek is a very good investment too. I no longer have a shop and do not have any affiliation with these companies. It's a Ford/Chevy deal, personally my best use and experience has been with the Giant/Liv product.

I read a mention of Tern folding e-bikes. We represented Tern and If I needed a folding e-bike, their product is very good. The company is also very responsive as on occasion we had warranty issues (as any product can have) and the staff at Tern were always quick to resolve any situation.

As far as buying online? A bicycle will need service. Develop a relationship with a quality shop in your area, support them and they will support you when you need service. And you will need their service. Again, I can't describe how many online purchasers brought their buying mistakes into us only to hear, "Sorry, wrong size, wrong parts or parts are not available for the product you purchased" Usually followed with "But the guy online said I can take it to any bike shop and they will fix it." Well, call up "Any Bike Shop" and take it to them for repair.

We used a Ford F-350 with a Outfitters Mfg Apex 9.5 camper for our road trips the last 7 years. Also would tow a 1980 Jeep CJ-5 to get around in. We started using e-bikes instead of dragging the Jeep and actually found we were using the e-bikes more and having more fun. I have since sold the Jeep and have the truck/camper on the market I have a new Ford F-150 Lariat 3.5 Ecoboost which is waiting to head to Chilliwack in May to pick up our new 5.0. And the e-bikes will fit nicely on the Escape bike hitch. Looking forward to a lot of fun!