Escape 21 coming to Livermore, CA - Page 3 - Escape Trailer Owners Community

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Old 01-29-2015, 02:32 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpaharley2008 View Post
Art,
Did you even consider the Andersen Hitch, it weighs 50% less than yours and should provide the same benefits of no sway and w/d. Plus it's a lot less expensive. Andersen Manufacturing Inc.
I've used traditional w/d set ups and I'm on my second Andersen set up, sold the first with my first Escape.
My primary influence was the "How to tow safely" guide from rv.org, a paid membership organization. (Their evaluation of trailer quality led me to fiberglass trailers and Escape.) J.D. Gallant discusses sway control by friction on most sway control hitches, which he finds to be mostly ineffective. He find that articulating hitches, like the PullRite and the Hensley reduces the risk of an accident caused by sway to nearly zero, perhaps not as good as a fifth wheel, but definitely superior to a fixed-ball hitch. He adds that statistics from the NHTSA show that accidents involving towing vehicles exceed the number of accidents involving non-towing vehicles. (I remember another figure that towing doubles the probability of being in an accident, but I couldn't find the quote while writing.) With that background, I didn't begrudge spending extra for the safety of a Hensley hitch. (Gallant didn't discuss hitch weight, other than it is essential to keep the total tongue weight in the range of 8-12% of the gross trailer weight (most places I read 10-15%, and Gallant says 15% is fine if your vehicle and hitch are rated for it).

I looked at the Anderson, after finding it an option on Escapes. I concluded that it was an above average quality hitch, but that it appeared to use friction for sway control. Gallant didn't specifically mention Andersen hitches, but he concluded that friction was not very effective. (The friction is supposed to make the trailer plus tow vehicle act as one unit when hit with bow waves or cross wind.) If it was high enough to damp sway on freeways, it was too high for curvy back roads because it was too hard to turn. The Hensley doesn't bend when the trailer is hit by cross winds, but does when the tow vehicle turns.

I didn't query this forum before buying a Hensley cub. Perhaps I would have been persuaded that there have been no sway-caused accidents with Escapes, and that I didn't need the extra safety of a Hensley. I have observed that Trailer Life Magazine reviews occasionally violate Gallant's minimum wheelbase vs trailer length requirement, and they report no problems. My conclusion from that is that problems are unlikely under normal conditions, but when abnormal conditions are encountered (for example, gravel on pavement just as a large truck passes) then maximizing the towing safety in as many ways as possible can pay off.
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Old 01-29-2015, 03:28 PM   #22
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We will be able to share experiences...
We are buying a 21 and pulling it with a Grand Cherokee 4WD Summit Diesel with the variable air suspension. We are planning on the Anderson hitch. Jeep does require a weight distribution hitch on the GC if the trailer weight exceeds 3500 pounds, so we have to make one of these choices.
We are supposed to get our trailer at the end of May, so stay tuned!
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Old 01-29-2015, 03:43 PM   #23
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Thanks for the thoughtful narrative of why you chose the Hensley and agree that J.D. Gallant's in depth article How To Tow Safely is an excellent resource and all would benefit from reading it:

http://www.escapeforum.org/forums/mi...sion%25202.pdf
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Old 01-29-2015, 11:26 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Art M. View Post
J.D. Gallant discusses sway control by friction on most sway control hitches, which he finds to be mostly ineffective.
That all makes sense - unless you understand something about oscillating systems. Any trailer will sway (oscillate in yaw) under the right conditions, and damping the system with friction is a perfectly valid way to address that - in fact, damping is essentially the only way without either changing the fundamental geometry of the trailer or preventing the rig from steering around a corner (although a fluid damper like a suspension shock absorber would be better than friction).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Art M. View Post
I looked at the Anderson, after finding it an option on Escapes. I concluded that it was an above average quality hitch, but that it appeared to use friction for sway control.
The Andersen No-Sway WD hitch certainly does use friction. It uses it in a particularly effective way (compared to other WD hitches with intentional friction for sway control), but the design carries the unfortunate consequence of pushing the coupler against the ball with a high load in an abnormal direction.

In Europe, where they tow trailers which tend to be quite heavy in relation to the tow vehicle, and they use relatively low tongue weight in proportion to trailer weight, friction is used very widely and effectively to damp sway. The euro hardware typically works by clamping pads against the tow ball so it won't work with our stud-mounted balls, but the damping effect is still valid.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Art M. View Post
(The friction is supposed to make the trailer plus tow vehicle act as one unit when hit with bow waves or cross wind.) If it was high enough to damp sway on freeways, it was too high for curvy back roads because it was too hard to turn.
No, that's not how frictional damping works, any more than a suspension damper (shock absorber) works by locking the suspension in one position until overcome by a big enough bump. On the other hand, the Reese Dual Cam does have a component (the cam) that works essentially that way.

The cheap generic friction bar devices are difficult to adjust properly, so the effect probably is that they are either too loose to be effective, or so tight they fight turns.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Art M. View Post
The Hensley doesn't bend when the trailer is hit by cross winds, but does when the tow vehicle turns.
Although Hensley Mfg company and its spin-off (ProPride) claim this, I don't see how this can correspond to physical reality. It's just a four-bar linkage, and it is not an over-centre mechanism or high-friction wedge (like a worm gear), so there's no reason it wouldn't be entirely reversible. The Hensley doesn't "know" the difference between cross-wind and a turn.
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Old 01-30-2015, 12:56 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by Rossue View Post
... J.D. Gallant's in depth article How To Tow Safely...
This is not just an article, it is a copyrighted publication which the author sells (through rv.net). Someone named Matt Slaga runs slaga.net. I don't know who he is but it does not appear that he has any right to distribute this material. I would be cautious about downloading anything from this sort of site.

My guess is that Social Knowledge would not endorse linking to Slaga's site.
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Old 01-30-2015, 10:14 AM   #26
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Not exactly sure what you're saying here Brian. Are you are suggesting it is wrong to provide a link without permission? If so search "can I provide a link to another website without permission".



https://lorelle.wordpress.com/2006/0...eones-content/

Many other links on this topic as well.

Edit: If there is concern about this site being safe to view see:
http://www.google.com/safebrowsing/d...site=slaga.net
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Old 01-30-2015, 10:38 AM   #27
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There is nothing illegal with using a link, to an article or even a photograph. It is illegal to actually copy and post the file if it is copyrighted. In this case Rossue did nothing wrong, but the site he linked to certainly may have. A really grey area on the internet. I have a few professional photographer friends that constantly are dealing with photo theft.
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Old 01-30-2015, 12:18 PM   #28
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This is taking a lot more time and attention than I wanted, but to address the issues raised... until (with any luck) all the relevant material gets deleted from this thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rossue View Post
Not exactly sure what you're saying here Brian. Are you are suggesting it is wrong to provide a link without permission? If so search "can I provide a link to another website without permission".

https://lorelle.wordpress.com/2006/0...eones-content/
No, the violation of intellectual property rights which concerns me is not in the link here, it is in the posting of copyrighted content by the other site. I'll believe you that linking to the other site is legal (I didn't search that because that's not the issue), but it would be surprising to me if any responsible publisher encouraged the unauthorized dissemination of copyrighted material by linking to it.

This a bit like a kid stealing a case of beer from a store, and everybody else saying "hey, I'm not the one that stole it"... while drinking a stolen bottle. A more direct equivalent would be if someone got a copy of a bunch of ebooks which are sold by Amazon, and then just posted them for anyone to take without paying.

Of course I agree that we can all link to that guy's site; it is the content there which is the concern. What if this guy posted kiddie porn - would it be okay to link to it from this forum? My guess is "no"... and I do understand that this is much less serious!

Ross, I assume that you just hadn't noticed that the book was not offered by the copyright owner (the author) for free distribution. Sorry if my post appeared critical of you, as that was not my intention - I just don't think the link belongs here (or anywhere).

This is essentially what Jim just posted, but with more explanation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rossue View Post
If there is concern about this site being safe to view see:
Google Safe Browsing diagnostic page for slaga.net
Good idea to check
Matt Slaga's site appears to be just too unimportant to have attracted hackers, and Slaga himself may be just clueless rather than malicious. To me, it's still the internet equivalent to a neighborhood to avoid.
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Old 01-30-2015, 09:09 PM   #29
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Ok, did some research on this- searched "can i provide a link to another website without permission". I just don't want people to get gun shy about participating and sharing ideas.

From Jennifer Kyrnin, Web Design/HTML Expert:
"
Web Links and the Law

"Because the act of linking to a site does not imply ownership or endorsement, there is no reason you would need to ask permission to link to a site that is publically accessible. For example, if you found a site URL through a search engine, then linking to it shouldn't have legal ramifications. There have been one or two cases in the United States that imply that the act of linking without permission is legally actionable, but these have been overturned everytime they come up."

Let's face it- if it was a porn site don't you think the FBI would've shut it down already?
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Old 01-30-2015, 11:57 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rossue View Post
Ok, did some research on this- searched "can i provide a link to another website without permission". I just don't want people to get gun shy about participating and sharing ideas.
As a volunteer webmaster for a number of local sites, I find it an odd concept that I would object to being linked to, or having my URL published. I'm going to a fair amount of trouble to present information to the public, and the more exposure - the better. In the case of sensitive information that is not intended for the public I put it in a password protected area. But that said, if I am adding a link to someone's personal page I will ask permission first. But not for sites (cities, universities, corporations, etc.) who are clearly trying to broadcast information.

"Deep" linking, where the linked URL skips past the home page (and presumably advertising that provides an income to the web site) is not a friendly thing to do. I have heard of legal actions being taken against deep linkers but don't recall the outcome.

My opinions ...

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