Escape wannabe but undecided re 19 vs 21

[Jim Bennett]

Originally Posted by Ruthe

We downsized from a 31'

And I've written before how much I like the bed with the three windows surrounding it.

We too downsized to a 19, as I think many have.

And great point on the windows. While having a rear dinette can be great from a viewing point in some campsites, the 19 has 3 big windows around both the dinette and the bed, and we loved that. We both loved to look all around from the bed before getting up, taking stock on the day ahead of us. That will be a lot more limited in the 5.0, and I am going to miss that.

[NW Cat Owner]

Originally Posted by KarenH

Not everyone on this forum thinks that bigger is better; some might even think that the more "stuff," the more that can (and will) go wrong. If ETI had stopped producing the 15 before I had a chance to get mine, I would probably be Escape-less.

Why did they stop producing it? I came to this forum just after that. Not enough sales is what I'm thinking. And that's nothing against those that own one, such as yourself Karen. I can tell how much you love yours from your posts about it.

[Jim Bennett]

Originally Posted by NW Cat Owner

Why did they stop producing it? I came to this forum just after that. Not enough sales is what I'm thinking. And that's nothing against those that own one, such as yourself Karen. I can tell how much you love yours from your posts about it.

Economics. It cost almost as much to produce a 15 as it did to produce a 17, and there was way more demand for the 17, and it would be a tough sell proceed near as much. Plus, if there is a better margin on the larger trailers, yet they take near the same time in production, I imagine from a profit standpoint, the larger trailers are better for business.

It is too bad though, I think the 15 is a great trailer.

[float5]

On the 19' and the 21', the big feature is the bed and its location and climb over or not. If you can get past that feature in each, it is then on to the bath size and counter and storage space and whether you think the 19' is plenty.

And, yes, at this point, you can sell a 19' or a 21' for about what you paid, so if you want to switch, it is a matter of waiting or buying somebody's used which would be nearly new as far as a 21'. 21's have not been made that long.

We have had both and loved the 19' and love the 21'.

[float5]

Originally Posted by casejh

Would those of you who have pulled both a 19 and a 21 please comment on the difference in how the two trailers tow? How much difference did you notice in starting, stopping, handling, maneuverability, mileage, etc? My tow vehicle will be a Chevy 4WD crew cab half-ton short box with 5.3L and 3.08 rear end, towing package and integrated brake controller, rated to pull 6200 lbs. Also, would I need more than the basic receiver hitch to pull either one?

I could say that I noticed no difference, however, there is just the slightest difference on turning for the width being another 4". If you have never owned a 19' though and get a 21', there won't be any difference to notice. Can't tell any difference otherwise yet but stopping should have some difference with a few hundred more pounds.

We are talking two small trailers here so the difference is really negligible. The length on a 21' is one foot eight inches more, so unless your driveway is short that amount, it is not noticeable. We happen to have a tow vehicle where the total length for both fits into two car parking spaces. With other TVs, likely not the case.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Jim Bennett

Economics. It cost almost as much to produce a 15 as it did to produce a 17, and there was way more demand for the 17, and it would be a tough sell proceed near as much. Plus, if there is a better margin on the larger trailers, yet they take near the same time in production, I imagine from a profit standpoint, the larger trailers are better for business.

I agree... it was primarily a matter of what model made best use of limited production slots. Also, as I recall Reace reportedly said that it was even more labour-intensive to build the 15 (than the 17), due to the more restricted working space. None of that changes the value of the 15 Foot model to those who find it suitable.

The 13 Foot was discontinued for similar reasons, even though that's the only size of Outback made by Team Trillium Trailers (of the same design as the Escape 13), and they continue to make them... so has always been a market for them.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by float5

I could say that I noticed no difference, however, there is just the slightest difference on turning for the width being another 4". If you have never owned a 19' though and get a 21', there won't be any difference to notice. Can't tell any difference otherwise yet but stopping should have some difference with a few hundred more pounds.

The width alone would mean cutting a couple inches closer to curbs on the inside of turns, and the slight increase in distance from ball to axles would also make the longer trailer track further inside, even if the width were the same. Not a huge difference, anyway.

Stopping shouldn't be noticeably different, since the trailer's brakes just do more work with a heavier trailer.

[LDRay]

We ordered our 19 without seeing a 21. The layout of the 21 didn't appeal to us. A few months before we picked up our 19 I began to wonder if we had made the right decision. Reading the forum posts from people who moved from the 19 to the 21 caused me to doubt our choice.

Then I went back to why we chose the 19. We wanted the smallest, quality trailer, we could find with a permanent queen bed and dual axles. The 19 is it.

When we were at the factory to pick up we went through all of the trailers. I gotta say I don't regret our choice. The 21 didn't seem that much more spacious.

However if I had a truck the TA would be calling to me.

Caren

[Patandlinda]

Originally Posted by float5

I could say that I noticed no difference, however, there is just the slightest difference on turning for the width being another 4". If you have never owned a 19' though and get a 21', there won't be any difference to notice. Can't tell any difference otherwise yet but stopping should have some difference with a few hundred more pounds.

We are talking two small trailers here so the difference is really negligible. The length on a 21' is one foot eight inches more, so unless your driveway is short that amount, it is not noticeable. We happen to have a tow vehicle where the total length for both fits into two car parking spaces. With other TVs, likely not the case.

Cathy we have to push the trailer backwards up a hill turn into driveway and push it up another hill go between to 2 block columns without hitting them and it now has a home in the middle following a line in the concrete . The truck gets parked on other side and Subaru is parked on other . To get the Subaru out there just is enough room clearing the front A Frame of the trailer paying attention . With camper it was where truck is parked of course . Motor home also used to be parked there . The truck and trailer are almost 40 ft . The motor home was only 23 ft total and camper half of trailer . There is a sliding gate to cross over too . I really don't want 2 more feet to deal with or 1 foot 8 in . Also more width . We have everything we need in the 19 . Pat

[Jim Bennett]

Originally Posted by LDRay

We ordered our 19 without seeing a 21. The layout of the 21 didn't appeal to us. A few months before we picked up our 19 I began to wonder if we had made the right decision. Reading the forum posts from people who moved from the 19 to the 21 caused me to doubt our choice.

Then I went back to why we chose the 19. We wanted the smallest, quality trailer, we could find with a permanent queen bed and dual axles. The 19 is it.

When we were at the factory to pick up we went through all of the trailers. I gotta say I don't regret our choice. The 21 didn't seem that much more spacious.

However if I had a truck the TA would be calling to me.

Caren

Other than the fact that there was no 21 available when I got my 19, all your other reasoning and take on things is pretty much parallel to mine.

However, the 5.0TA did eventually call me over.

[float5]

Originally Posted by Patandlinda

Cathy we have to push the trailer backwards up a hill turn into driveway and push it up another hill go between to 2 block columns without hitting them and it now has a home in the middle following a line in the concrete . The truck gets parked on other side and Subaru is parked on other . To get the Subaru out there just is enough room clearing the front A Frame of the trailer paying attention . With camper it was where truck is parked of course . Motor home also used to be parked there . The truck and trailer are almost 40 ft . The motor home was only 23 ft total and camper half of trailer . There is a sliding gate to cross over too . I really don't want 2 more feet to deal with or 1 foot 8 in . Also more width . We have everything we need in the 19 . Pat

Nope, don't think you can use another one foot eight inches. But I wish we had similar to you because we go an hour away to storage.

There was no 21' when we bought our 19'. Glad we had both though. Needs and wants change and everyone cannot use the same thing forever.

[Patandlinda]

Originally Posted by float5

Nope, don't think you can use another one foot eight inches. But I wish we had similar to you because we go an hour away to storage.

There was no 21' when we bought our 19'. Glad we had both though. Needs and wants change and everyone cannot use the same thing forever.

Had to enclose front some neighbors let there dogs free even though we have a lease law here . Besides scratching my VW and needing to worry about my 3 Shih tzu 's totally all 28 lbs . which their big dogs will go after if given the chance , it was just easier to enclose front . Also had problems with strangers coming up driveway when I was working in garage and startling me . So glad I did it for trailer also . Pat

[Bear101]

Hello All
Another wannabe question. What is the manufacturer of the stoves that ETI uses and do they have a flush mount, glass top option? At least, have they had such an option in the past? I think I saw one in a 17 in the gallery. If this needs to be purchased does anybody know where the 17 owners purchase theirs?
Thank You!
Barry

[Rossue]

Atwood is used for the 2 & 3 burner cooktop- no optons at this time. ChrisR used a Dickinson marine stove in his killer 5.0 TA custom kitchen. Have been considering upgrading but it is a limited market out there. One that looks maybe doable is a Summit two burner with glass top and sealed burners with electronic ignition. Believe it is made by Verona in Italy. Would have to turn it sideways as it is a front to back model like most of them and is too deep to go in that way. Because it has a decorative rim the Verona doesn't have it may just work with the current cutout depth.

[Jim Bennett]

Not sure why there are not more, better solutions for appliances here in North American, short of going the route of purchasing those intended for marine use. In Europe, there are lots of better quality choices to be had, including the Verona Ross mentioned. I have had a Dickinson two burner cooktop awaiting me to pick up and delivery to Escape, which I will do next Monday.

I really liked the SMEV unit we put in our 19, and there are some models available here in North America, but nowhere near all the great offerings they have.

Maybe a good business for someone to start up, building quality appliances for RV's?

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Jim Bennett

Not sure why there are not more, better solutions for appliances here in North American, short of going the route of purchasing those intended for marine use. In Europe, there are lots of better quality choices to be had, including the Verona Ross mentioned...
Maybe a good business for someone to start up, building quality appliances for RV's?

I think the attitude here for most RV buyers is that a better product is not worth paying for. Bigger, maybe, but not better. To pay for premium appliances implies an intention to keep them and the RV containing them for a long time, and there is little of that commitment. Boats are generally a premium market compared to travel trailers and motorhomes, so marine suppliers are good sources for all kinds of RV components and hardware.

I think it would be hard to succeed in the premium appliance market - it would probably take an exclusive contract with a premium RV manufacturer. I would suggest Airstream, based on their reputation and price, but having seen the inside of a few of those I'm sure they are not willing to pay for better quality and functionality.

[emers382]

Originally Posted by azjack

My experience of towing the 19 and then a 21 behind the same vehicle, a Jeep GC with the Hemi V8 is the same as Jim. With the 21 I added clip on mirrors and lost 1 to 2 mpg. Of course we added a larger aisle, bigger bath and don't bother each other if a late night has a call. We use the andersen WDH. We just left Quartzite Sunday and will be in Palm Springs until Monday. There is a vintage trailer display/rally here on Sunday and we enjoy the trailers we used to have when they weren't vintage. On Monday time to head for Tucson so Nancy can see how many of her plants are dead.
Jack and Nancy

We are in Tucson till the 1st. Send me a PM with your address, we could go and water the plants that is if they are outside ones

Adrian

[Bear101]

Originally Posted by Jim Bennett

Not sure why there are not more, better solutions for appliances here in North American, short of going the route of purchasing those intended for marine use. In Europe, there are lots of better quality choices to be had, including the Verona Ross mentioned. I have had a Dickinson two burner cooktop awaiting me to pick up and delivery to Escape, which I will do next Monday.

I really liked the SMEV unit we put in our 19, and there are some models available here in North America, but nowhere near all the great offerings they have.

Maybe a good business for someone to start up, building quality appliances for RV's?

Jim I like the SMEV as well. Where did you purchase the one for your 19?
Barry

[Bear101]

Originally Posted by Rossue

Atwood is used for the 2 & 3 burner cooktop- no optons at this time. ChrisR used a Dickinson marine stove in his killer 5.0 TA custom kitchen. Have been considering upgrading but it is a limited market out there. One that looks maybe doable is a Summit two burner with glass top and sealed burners with electronic ignition. Believe it is made by Verona in Italy. Would have to turn it sideways as it is a front to back model like most of them and is too deep to go in that way. Because it has a decorative rim the Verona doesn't have it may just work with the current cutout depth.

Thank you Rossue
The Verona two burner looks very nice. I see two versions one where it looks like it might br flush mount and another gas on glass version that is very sharp
Barry

[Jim Bennett]

Originally Posted by Bear101

Jim I like the SMEV as well. Where did you purchase the one for your 19?
Barry

Escape had them in stock when I bought my 19, as they were putting them in the 13' Trilliums they were building at the time for Trillium Sidekick in California. I doubt they are still available, but one could always ask.