Escape wannabe but undecided re 19 vs 21

[Bear101]

Originally Posted by NW Cat Owner

I don't know how practical it would be to do, but here's a thought. Since you're not sure if you're going to be able to view a 21' near you and I kind of wonder how many owners would let you, your wife and your dog test out the bed in their trailer, you could try this at home.

Pile up a bunch of blankets along one side of your king bed. Measure so the area left to lay down is the same size as the beds in the 19 and 21 (you'll be doing this twice, once for each bed size). Flop down on the bed with the dog and see how it works for sleeping. For the person on the inside for the 19, how easy is it to crawl over the other person and the dog? For the 21, how easy is it to scoot down with the dog near your feet?

Maybe if your dog likes a certain pillow, you could put it on the dinette in either trailer and it'll sleep there, giving you guys more room for sleeping. (Yeah, my cats sleep with me, so I can relate.)

Or, just figure one of you will sleep in the bed and the other on the dinette, made into a bed. and the dog will have a choice of two places to sleep.

Not practical but the thought is great LDLS. We have a variant way to test this, we will sleep on the queen in the spare room and see what Baco does. We can even test this with and without wine.

[cpaharley2008]

Barry,
I'm about 9 hours from you here in Pennsylvania, you are welcome to come and lay on the bed for comfort measurements. But do it soon as BlackJack will be going to a new home in less than
30 days. Evertime I show the Escape I always insist that the bed be sat upon to feel the comfort.
I believe Pstyer saw mine at the Niagara Rally this past fall.

[Bear101]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

That would be the second-generation MDX, presumably corresponding to the second-generation (2009-2015) Pilot. In this generation, it appears that an MDX has a slightly larger engine and more power than a Pilot.

Since additional towing capacity is usually due to reliability-related changes (such as additional transmission cooling capacity), the towing behaviour and performance probably changes little if any with the towing package (but of course you need to stay within your vehicle's limits for reliability).

Will do Brian, interestingly the weight of the 19 is very similar to our current tent trailer and when we tow that with the MDX our gas mileage is reduced by, at most, 1L/100 km. I know wind resistance will be a major difference with the Escape versus a TT but I would not be concerned about the 19. I will check all of the numbers and plan on purchasing a weight distribution hitch.

[Bear101]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

Barry,
I'm about 9 hours from you here in Pennsylvania, you are welcome to come and lay on the bed for comfort measurements. But do it soon as BlackJack will be going to a new home in less than
30 days. Evertime I show the Escape I always insist that the bed be sat upon to feel the comfort.
I believe Pstyer saw mine at the Niagara Rally this past fall.

Thank You Jim
This semester is getting busier, I am a University Professor, so I am not sure we will be able to make it in the next 30 days. Honestly we are leaning toward a 21 based on the feed back we have gotten here and the fact that we have been researching this, lying in comparable beds at RV shows, finding stick trailers with some of the Escape attributes to look at etc etc for over a year now. So what are you camping in now that you are giving up the 21 Jim?

[cpaharley2008]

I'm getting the new Escape TA 5th wheel, 2017 model....
go here for Rally info, the one in late May in Osoyoos,BC is the biggest, not that the others are any less, just a little smaller. http://www.escapeforum.org/forums/f17/

[Bear101]

Originally Posted by float5

There are Pilots here with 4500 towing capacity and people have towed 19's with them. Don't know about 21's. If you have a 5000 rating and you check the other numbers such as GCWR and GVWR, you can see if those numbers work for a 21' with 4600 lbs. allowed for the trailer. We do use a WDH for our 5000 towing capacity TV.

Will do Cathy, thank you. I will assess all the numbers and plan on getting a WDH and if things don't allow us to get a 21 then, well we get the 19, or maybe its time for a new TV : )

[Bear101]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

I'm getting the new Escape TA 5th wheel, 2017 model....
go here for Rally info, the one in late May in Osoyoos,BC is the biggest, not that the others are any less, just a little smaller. http://www.escapeforum.org/forums/f17/

Great endorsement of the products Jim, so you really do like Escape trailers !

[cpaharley2008]

Yes, I have had close to a dozen trailers over past 10 years and 3 of them have been Escapes.

[Bear101]

Originally Posted by Loren & Cathy

Since we figured this was a one time major purchase, we drove to Chilliwack to compare all of the models that Escape manufactured. We left thinking it was the 19, but ended up with the 21. Take your time, compare all of the trailers and make the choice that is best for you. Worry about the tow later. Loren

Loren and Cathy
Your point is a very good one but that trip and our timing for a new trailer are difficult to reconcile. We have been researching this for over a year and done many mock comparisons to assess different aspects of the Escape trailers. We are also influenced by the number of individuals who were very diligent and decided on the 21, as you did, and we were leaning that way before I joined the forum. I will run the numbers for my vehicle and see if the 21 can be safely towed by it. If so that may decide it for us. Thank You

[Donna D.]

Originally Posted by Bear101

How does one find out about dates and locations of the rallies?

Here's a couple more resources. This first one is a map that's maintained at the CasitaForum, but not just strictly Casita brand rallies. Both of the rallies I host are on it:

https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer...&oe=UTF8&msa=0

And this one is maintained at FiberglassRV, same rules apply:
https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer...c.k-Kz7_9r9FlE

You'll see a number of rallies posted on both maps, but sometimes not.

These maps are constantly changing as rallies are added.

[Bear101]

Great resources Donna D. thank you. Jim also pointed out a link in the forum that discusses the rallies. The maps are very good quick reference.

[Bear101]

New question in the 19 or the 21 if we chose to go with the air conditioner would we lose one of the roof vents? Is the air conditioner installed in place of one of the vents?

[cpaharley2008]

Originally Posted by Bear101

New question in the 19 or the 21 if we chose to go with the air conditioner would we lose one of the roof vents? Is the air conditioner installed in place of one of the vents?

Correct, you will only have one vent with the a/c replacing the rear vent.

[Greggo]

19's are awesome but consider the bunches of 19'ers going to 21's (myself included). Never heard of someone going the other way.

Greg

[bisonbill]

Your original question included a choice between Escape and Camplite. Before we bought, we looked at a Bigfoot, Camplite, and Escape on the same day. It was a cold New England Columbus Day weekend and on the way to see the Escape, we stopped at a Camplite dealer and looked at several of the Camplites. They felt cold. In contrast, the dealer also had a used Bigfoot that we spent more time looking at than the new Camplites. The Bigfoot was too was too small and the bed was a fold down of the table, but it felt much warmer than the Camplites. We decided in that dealer's lot we wanted a fiberglass trailer. Saw the Escape later that afternoon, and called Escape on Monday. If you are going to camp at all in the shoulder seasons, I'd definitely recommend an Escape.

Our 21 easily takes a big dog on the floor and the little dog on the dinette bench. Just slide the table over, and he hops right up.

[Iowa Dave]

Bill
For sure, the shoulder seasons are "the camping seasons" for us. We've used the furnace in our Escape far more than the air conditioner. For us, the 19 has worked well and we do not see changing in the near future. Most of the time the max fan pulls enough cool air in at night, even on a hot day. During the day, we are outside about 95 % of the time. Under the awning, with a little rain coming down, it's nap time for me.
Dave

[Bear101]

Originally Posted by Greggo

19's are awesome but consider the bunches of 19'ers going to 21's (myself included). Never heard of someone going the other way.

Greg

Two foot itis Greg ? : )

We have noted this.

[Bear101]

Originally Posted by bisonbill

Your original question included a choice between Escape and Camplite. Before we bought, we looked at a Bigfoot, Camplite, and Escape on the same day. It was a cold New England Columbus Day weekend and on the way to see the Escape, we stopped at a Camplite dealer and looked at several of the Camplites. They felt cold. In contrast, the dealer also had a used Bigfoot that we spent more time looking at than the new Camplites. The Bigfoot was too was too small and the bed was a fold down of the table, but it felt much warmer than the Camplites. We decided in that dealer's lot we wanted a fiberglass trailer. Saw the Escape later that afternoon, and called Escape on Monday. If you are going to camp at all in the shoulder seasons, I'd definitely recommend an Escape.

Our 21 easily takes a big dog on the floor and the little dog on the dinette bench. Just slide the table over, and he hops right up.

Shoulder seasons are our favorite so this is a great point bisonbill. Thank you.

[Jim Bennett]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

Having owned and slept in both Escape models, here is my opinion. The bed in the 19, although a queen mattress is really too big for the space, to a point where it is really hard to make the bed, also the bed is elevated to where one can not sit on the bed and put on their shoes or socks. You have to climb over the other person and you are surrounded by 3 cold walls in the winter. The aisles and bathroom are smaller, to where only one person can get by.
In the 21 you have none of these issues, the bed is lower to where you can sit at the foot and put you shoes/socks on, one less exterior wall and a lot easier to make. A lot more storage underneath the 21' bed. The aisles are 2 people wide and the bath is almost a foot larger.
Finally your dinette is looking out the rear 3 windows which normally will have a better view that your tow vehicle. Go big or stay home.....

Having owned a 19 for over 6 years, I must emphatically disagree with your observations on it.

My thoughts on your take on the 19

• I do not think a queen bed is too big.
• It was very easy to make the bed. Fold the sheets into place, and it was done.
• Climbing over your partner is not the best of situations, but necessary to get that big of bed in that size of trailer. Plus, it is not that big of deal at all. We ended up timing our mid night trips so we went at the same time. Easy peasy.
• Surrounded by 3 cold walls? We never found the walls cold though never slept right against them, and I would venture to bet we slept in many, many more colder nights than you experienced. Plus, do not all these trailer have 4 (cold) walls surrounding you?
• The bed is elevated due to the floor being elevated under it, the same issue with the dinette seats in the current 5.0 and 21 being too high. I don't think I have sat on a bed to put socks on in my life, I guess I just learned others do. Definitely not an issue for us. Besides, I have sat on the edge of the bed talking to my wife working at the galley lots of times, and don't remember it being that bad.
• How is there more storage under the bed in a 21, with it being a lot smaller? There was tons of room under the 19 bed, very useful.
• Though the aisle is 4" narrower, there is plenty of room for two to pass each other there, we did it all the time.
• If you had a mid-sized or larger dog sharing your bed, for us the smaller bed in the 21 would not work. Heck, our dog is only in our bed for maybe 30 minutes most nights, and even with a queen the space seems to tighten up quite a bit.

And lastly, "Go big or stay home". Yeah, having to sit on my fingers and think a bit, as my first response to that might not be appropriate here. Not that there is anything at all wrong with bigger if it works for folks, but to stay if you are thinking smaller (and many, many folks would not consider a 19 small by any means), that you should just stay home, is very misguided advise. At least in my opinion. Other opinions may vary.

The 21 and 19 are both fantastic trailers in their own right. Even though I was never fond of the bed/bath layout in the 21, I still think it is a model that would work great for many, as it has proven to do. Just as I think there are a lot of people for whom a 19 works better.

Just one mans opinions and observations, obviously others see it differently.

[gbaglo]

Originally Posted by Iowa Dave

During the day, we are outside about 95 % of the time. Under the awning, with a little rain coming down, it's nap time for me.
Dave

Kinda like this?