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Old 03-19-2015, 12:11 AM   #11
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Yes, our Escape is a 17B. We have a 2008 Outback 2.5. We have traveled from Oregon to Arizona and back a couple of times and have taken several other camping trips. We pack with food clothes and other things without too much weight. We have two batteries and two tanks. It works pretty hard on the passes, but overall we have had good luck. DL
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Old 03-19-2015, 12:19 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CathyAndDon View Post
Thanks. More good info and I looked at the FGRV posts. I'm not wanting to argue with the Subie engineers, just trying to get good information. We've had differing info. from 2 Subaru dealers and our Tacoma mechanic. We have been pulling a 13' Scamp as long as we've owned the Outback. So it seems clear (sorta) that the tongue rating is based on the frame, not on the tongue or the vehicle suspension system.
The tongue weight allowed is usually said to be 10% of the max allowed for trailer weight. In this case, that would be 270 lbs. for tongue weight but the official figure should be easy to find. You also need to meet the GCWR.

When you say dealer, don't know if you mean sales people or not but they are not a good source on towing. The manual for your particular model should have much of what you need.
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Old 03-19-2015, 12:25 AM   #13
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Dan,

So how do you keep your tongue weight down to max 200#? My 17B tongue weight is 320#.
Are you using a WDH?
Have you weighed your trailer loaded?
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Old 03-19-2015, 12:27 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by CathyAndDon View Post
The Escape web-site Spec sheet shows 3500 lbs Gross Vehicle Weight Rating, but it appears maybe they are meaning the minimum towing capacity??
No, they mean the Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR) of the trailer - not the GVWR of the tug or anything else about the tug or its capacity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gbaglo View Post
I think the Gross Vehicle Weight Rating you refer to is the capacity of the axle that is used in the 17.
3500 pounds is both the capacity of the 17 axle, and the GVWR of the 17 - the axle capacity and GVWR are often equal.

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Originally Posted by gbaglo View Post
It is the maximum weight that the trailer can be loaded.
Exactly
If you don't load the trailer up with 3/4 of ton of water and stuff it doesn't have to get that heavy, but you are allowed to load it up to that total weight if you want... and if your tug can handle it.
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Old 03-19-2015, 12:32 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by CathyAndDon View Post
Outback manual says max total trailer weight of 2700lbs, so I think we would only be able to add 600 lbs to a 17 ft Plan B to stay under.
That's right for the trailer... add 600 pounds of options, water, propane, and your stuff to the 2100 pound base dry weight of the Escape, and you have 2700 pounds of trailer to pull. That's about how much water and stuff we carried in our similar trailer when we were using it - not packing feather-light but also not stuffing it full.

Unfortunately, you may find that the Gross Combined Weight Rating of the Outback doesn't let you haul a 2700 pound trailer at the same time as having passengers and cargo in the car.

More importantly, that hitch weight limit that has already been explained is the real limitation for towing Escapes, or most other travel trailers.
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Old 03-19-2015, 09:32 PM   #16
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OK. So the Specification on Escape web site that has the Gross Vehicle Weight Rating is confusing because it is actually the GTWR.
from CPAHarley Understanding RV weight Terms:
GTW: Gross Trailer Weight Gross Trailer Weight (GTW) is the same as Gross Vehicle Weight (GVW) when referring to a trailer. While GVW can be applied to tow vehicles and trailers, GTW makes it clear that we are speaking of a trailer.

Our Outback has GVWR of 4585 lbs; Max. Total trailer weight 2700 lbs.; and GAWR for Rear axle is 2340 lbs. All seems doable with a 17A or 17B w/ caution on loads in water tanks.
The problem with the Outback is that the tongue load stay w/i 8 to 11% of total trailer weight and not exceeding max. of 200 lbs.
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Old 03-19-2015, 09:36 PM   #17
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In other words you can not tow with an Outback an Escape because the tongue weight set by the car company is 200 lbs, irregardless of what the GVWR. You have to meet all of the criteria of both the tongue weight and GVWR. It is not advisable, plus I believe you have the CVT transmission which is not good for towing. I have a Forrester and looked at the Outback, both are nice cars but not for towing an Escape.
Check with your dealer, here in Pennsylvania they will not install a hitch for towing.
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Old 03-19-2015, 09:49 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by cpaharley2008 View Post
In other words you can not tow with an Outback an Escape because the tongue weight set by the car company is 200 lbs, irregardless of what the GVWR. You have to meet all of the criteria of both the tongue weight and GVWR. It is not advisable, plus I believe you have the CVT transmission which is not good for towing. I have a Forrester and looked at the Outback, both are nice cars but not for towing an Escape.
Check with your dealer, here in Pennsylvania they will not install a hitch for towing.
Check with your dealer, here in Pennsylvania they will not install a hitch for towing.
I hear you. 1 Subaru dealer recommended the U-haul hitch for towing; 1 dealer says only their factory hitch.
Does anyone still have the specs. on the Escape 15-- i.e. Approx. Dry hitch weight
We initially got interested in the 15 because we wanted to move up a bit from the Scamp13; was disappointed in decision to stop making the 15.
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Old 03-19-2015, 10:10 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CathyAndDon View Post
OK. So the Specification on Escape web site that has the Gross Vehicle Weight Rating is confusing because it is actually the GTWR.
from CPAHarley Understanding RV weight Terms:
GTW: Gross Trailer Weight Gross Trailer Weight (GTW) is the same as Gross Vehicle Weight (GVW) when referring to a trailer. While GVW can be applied to tow vehicles and trailers, GTW makes it clear that we are speaking of a trailer.
... and it is actually the GVWR. It's the specs page for a trailer, what other vehicle would the GVWR specification refer to?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CathyAndDon View Post
Our Outback has GVWR of 4585 lbs; Max. Total trailer weight 2700 lbs.; and GAWR for Rear axle is 2340 lbs. All seems doable with a 17A or 17B w/ caution on loads in water tanks.
Okay, it's good to have those values, but isn't there more information needed to reach the conclusion that it is all doable?
  • Outback GVWR of 4585 lbs... which is useful if you know how much the Outback will weigh with passengers, cargo, and the trailer tongue weight, because GVWR is the limit for that total. What does an Outback weigh, and how much passenger and cargo weight is expected?
  • Outback GAWR-rear of 2340 lbs... which is useful if you know how much load there will be on the Outback's rear axle when loaded and towing, because GVWR is the limit for that total. How much load is on the rear axle when empty, and how much passenger and cargo load will be added to it?

I agree that 2700 pounds is enough for an Escape 17 with minimal options and careful loading.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CathyAndDon View Post
The problem with the Outback is that the tongue load stay w/i 8 to 11% of total trailer weight and not exceeding max. of 200 lbs.
I agree, that's the most immediate problem.
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Old 03-19-2015, 10:12 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpaharley2008 View Post
Check with your dealer, here in Pennsylvania they will not install a hitch for towing.
Seriously? Why?

For a number of years now Subaru US website says you can get a Class II hitch direct from the factory - its an option cost $550 and I have seen them on lots of Subaru's on lots both in the US and Canada. A number of years back all they offered from the factory was a Class I hitch and the dealers sent the cars out to a local hitch shop to have the Class II hitches installed on the Outbacks with the tow ratings of 2700 or 3000lbs.

Regardless as someone who has pulled with an Outback I wouldn't try hauling a 17' Escape with one as the tongue weight would be well over the 200lb tongue weight limit set by Subaru.
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