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Old 12-02-2014, 12:51 PM   #31
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12-2

Quote:
Originally Posted by cpaharley2008 View Post
Exactly, they only use #12 wire in commercial establishments.
In homes your kitchen ,laundry, pantry ,dining rm ,dinettes bathroom receptacles are all wired in 12-2 and required by code to be on a 20 amp circuit . The kitchen requires 2 separate 20 amp circuit as does the laundry .. 14-2 wiring in homes is used for general lighting circuits in bedrooms ,hallways ..,living rm based on the calculated load of 3 watts per square ft.. The cost of 12-2 cable is considerably more than 14-2 and also incurs other costs such as requiring larger junction boxes . # 12 wire is not a code requirement in commercial applications but is a best practice rule. You could wire a whole house in #12 and comply with the code but it does not make a better job or financial sense.
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Old 12-02-2014, 02:25 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steve dunham View Post
In homes your kitchen ,laundry, pantry ,dining rm ,dinettes bathroom receptacles are all wired in 12-2 and required by code to be on a 20 amp circuit . The kitchen requires 2 separate 20 amp circuit as does the laundry .. 14-2 wiring in homes is used for general lighting circuits in bedrooms ,hallways ..,living rm based on the calculated load of 3 watts per square ft.. The cost of 12-2 cable is considerably more than 14-2 and also incurs other costs such as requiring larger junction boxes . # 12 wire is not a code requirement in commercial applications but is a best practice rule. You could wire a whole house in #12 and comply with the code but it does not make a better job or financial sense.
Codes must be different in Canada, but I didn't think so.

The only thing residential standard that by code uses 20A wiring, is in a kitchen, and the outlets must be GFI protected, with no more than 2 on a circuit. This has been the case for near 10 years, and before that, it was 15A with split receptacles (the two on any one duplex plug on separate circuits) was the standard, but is still acceptable.

The rest of the house can be done on 15A circuits, with a maximum of 12 plugs/lights per circuit, and I have never seen it done differently.

But yes, you can run 20A circuits if you wish, and if you think there will be the possibility of a higher current demand, or the need to operate an appliance or equipment requiring it. I wired all my garage 120V outlets for 20A, and the 240V with 20A and 30A.

I do agree that the Electrical Code is a minimum, and in part laid out from a safety perspective. There is nothing at all wrong with wiring to exceed code, especially in areas that might need it. Though not required, we always wire bathroom counter plugs to be on a separate 15A circuit, as things like hair dryers and curling irons draw a good sized load.
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Old 12-02-2014, 02:50 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Jim Bennett View Post
Codes must be different in Canada, but I didn't think so.

The only thing residential standard that by code uses 20A wiring, is in a kitchen, and the outlets must be GFI protected, with no more than 2 on a circuit. This has been the case for near 10 years, and before that, it was 15A with split receptacles (the two on any one duplex plug on separate circuits) was the standard, but is still acceptable.

The rest of the house can be done on 15A circuits, with a maximum of 12 plugs/lights per circuit, and I have never seen it done differently.

But yes, you can run 20A circuits if you wish, and if you think there will be the possibility of a higher current demand, or the need to operate an appliance or equipment requiring it. I wired all my garage 120V outlets for 20A, and the 240V with 20A and 30A.

I do agree that the Electrical Code is a minimum, and in part laid out from a safety perspective. There is nothing at all wrong with wiring to exceed code, especially in areas that might need it. Though not required, we always wire bathroom counter plugs to be on a separate 15A circuit, as things like hair dryers and curling irons draw a good sized load.
Jim , I asked a simple question of fact " How many 120 VAC circuits and what amperage circuits are provided in a new Escape 21 . I was not attempting to give code lessons . I have no intentions of running a welder from my trailer . The standard in homes is to have 20 amp circuits in the kitchen which allows you to run 2 appliances at the same time . This could easily be accomplished in any trailer and Casita is providing the 20 amp circuit in the kitchen. I assumed with Escapes attention to detail that their wiring would exceed the bare minimum and I assumed incorrectly . Evidently this is not the website to ask anything that could / would reflect unfavorably on Escape or questions the faith!!
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Old 12-02-2014, 02:57 PM   #34
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I don't think the issue is a question of faith in Escape. It's more a question of camping style. I have no microwave, coffee maker, toaster, hair dryer or anything else that needs to be plugged in to a 20 amp circuit, nor do I desire to pay for such.
You described having to rewire several different RVs to get the circuitry you want. That suggests that you are not the typical buyer of a small trailer.
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Old 12-02-2014, 03:15 PM   #35
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Evidently this is not the website to ask anything that could / would reflect unfavorably on Escape or questions the faith!!
I know you are new here Steve, but you should go back a ways to do some reading. Many have asked for things they desire that Escape does not include as a standard. Even I questioned Reace on lots of ideas, some he gave in to, and some not. For me it is more of a question as to why, in the case of running 20A circuits. There are two plugs available in the kitchen on two separate circuits. You would have to introduce a third appliance, where the current draw of the smallest two appliances would exceed the protection on a 15A circuit, to blow the breaker. Who has that kind of stuff in these small trailers?

If Reace was to overbuild lots of the trailer components, and add in top of the line fittings, he would price himself out of a huge part of the segment he markets too.

If I was building my own trailer, I would likely overbuild for sure, and add the high end stuff, that is my nature and how I do things. But if any two of us did this same thing, I bet we wouldn't use a lot of the same stuff.
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Old 12-02-2014, 03:24 PM   #36
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Another consideration Steve is the finished product. ETI does a good job in wiring and routing and the finished product. I've seen Parkliner and Eggcamper and Scamps wiring, all not up to ETI's standard. Perhaps if ETI used the thicker wire they could not still make the tight bends, I do not know. But all you have to do is ask them to wire your trailer with the 20 amp wires and outlets, see if they will.
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Old 12-02-2014, 03:48 PM   #37
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When ordering our 21 ft and I wanted to relocate some of the outlets I was told by Reace himself that he only likes to add additional outlets not move the standand ones. I believe and don't quote me on this that it was something to do with the harnesses are made up ahead of time and its way easier to add to then change the origianal harness. Again thats just what I remember but there was a lot going on at the time.
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Old 12-02-2014, 03:50 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Bennett View Post
There are two plugs available in the kitchen on two separate circuits.
The layout which Abby linked to (21' electrical plan) shows only one in the kitchen counter area, but it might not be current or complete... and I didn't survey outlets when I looked inside any of the Escape display models. Where's the second outlet, and is it an unlisted option?
(I'm not counting the ones in the cabinetry on the other side of the trailer, as it is obviously not practical to plug a countertop appliance into them.)
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Old 12-02-2014, 03:54 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dave macrae View Post
When ordering our 21 ft and I wanted to relocate some of the outlets I was told by Reace himself that he only likes to add additional outlets not move the standand ones. I believe and don't quote me on this that it was something to do with the harnesses are made up ahead of time and its way easier to add to then change the origianal harness.
That makes a lot of sense to me, and is consistent with the way I saw the 12VDC wiring harnesses being built at the factory. The 120VAC wiring might also be set up outside and put into the trailer as a harness; at the very least, keeping the standard wiring would be good to avoid issues in design or assembly.
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Old 12-02-2014, 03:59 PM   #40
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This is also the reason why most other trailer companies will not even add, let alone move an outlet. Ask Airstream to make change, furgetaboutit.
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