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12-02-2015, 10:38 PM
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#21
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Denison, Texas
Trailer: 2015 21'; 2011 19' sold; 4Runner; ph ninezero3 327-27ninefour
Posts: 5,136
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Brian, I am trying to follow all of this.
On post #5 photo, unfortunately dark but can be enlarged and seen better, I think there are two 15-amp breakers on the right. Believe they are related to the inverter.
__________________
Cathy. Floating Cloud
"Live in the sunshine, swim the sea, drink the wild air.... "
Emerson
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12-02-2015, 11:47 PM
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#22
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Trailer: 1979 Boler B1700
Posts: 14,935
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Floating Cloud
On post #5 photo, unfortunately dark but can be enlarged and seen better, I think there are two 15-amp breakers on the right. Believe they are related to the inverter.
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I saw that, but couldn't see enough of the wiring to be sure of the arrangement.
When the inverter is used, do all of the AC outlets work, or just one or two? If it is just one circuit which is inverter-powered, then that breaker box is probably for the circuit(s) powered by the inverter.
If the inverter powers everything when it is on... well, I'm not sure yet why the separate breaker box.
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12-03-2015, 12:12 AM
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#23
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Denison, Texas
Trailer: 2015 21'; 2011 19' sold; 4Runner; ph ninezero3 327-27ninefour
Posts: 5,136
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Yes, we have all 120s working with the inverter. Think it is possible to have only one.
We were told there were inverter breakers and we thought those were the ones, however, I am wondering if that box could be connected to the heating pads that came with the spray foam? The switch for those is under the driver's side dinette.
__________________
Cathy. Floating Cloud
"Live in the sunshine, swim the sea, drink the wild air.... "
Emerson
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12-03-2015, 12:53 AM
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#24
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: North Van., British Columbia
Trailer: 2014 Escape 19, sold; 2019 Escape 21, Sept. 2019
Posts: 8,743
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[QUOTE=Brian B-P;119871
If the inverter powers everything when it is on... well, I'm not sure yet why the separate breaker box.[/QUOTE]
Why would there be separate breakers for power going to outlets. Wouldn't the feed from the inverter go to a transfer switch, then go to the panel and then through the panel circuit breakers to the outlets?
We're counting on you Brian to figure this one out.
Ron
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12-03-2015, 01:04 AM
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#25
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Denison, Texas
Trailer: 2015 21'; 2011 19' sold; 4Runner; ph ninezero3 327-27ninefour
Posts: 5,136
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Yes, we paid for the transfer switch. Transfer switch and heat pads both labeled in photo. Heat pads lower right.
__________________
Cathy. Floating Cloud
"Live in the sunshine, swim the sea, drink the wild air.... "
Emerson
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12-03-2015, 01:11 AM
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#26
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Denison, Texas
Trailer: 2015 21'; 2011 19' sold; 4Runner; ph ninezero3 327-27ninefour
Posts: 5,136
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Heat pads 20. Hope that is both because it is not plural and that is all I see. Think there is only one switch.
__________________
Cathy. Floating Cloud
"Live in the sunshine, swim the sea, drink the wild air.... "
Emerson
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12-03-2015, 06:22 AM
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#27
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Central, Pennsylvania
Trailer: Escape#5 2022 E19
Posts: 26,268
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There should be another switch to turn the heat pads on/off, mine was under the bed in the 19' and was a silver toggle switch. You may want to modify that switch and install a indicator light to remind you when the pads are on/off, similar to the water heater reminder.
__________________
Jim
Sometime life gets in the way of living.......
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12-03-2015, 07:17 AM
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#28
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Phoenix Metro Area, Arizona
Trailer: 2014 Escape 19
Posts: 767
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The 120V side of the distribution panel is fed from the shore power cord and has only one bus. All unswitched (shore power only) circuits come from the panel - 120V water heater, Air Conditioner, 120V fridge, microwave if not switched.
All switched (transfer and inverter OR shore power) circuits use the auxiliary breaker box. I like having 2 (or more) breakers in it so you can use more than 15A when on shore power - if you spread the load across 2 or more circuits. ETI wired ours (one of the very early ETI transfer switch installs) with only one breaker - all outlets were on 1 15A circuit so I rewired it. http://www.escapeforum.org/forums/f8...mods-3279.html
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12-03-2015, 01:24 PM
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#29
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Trailer: 1979 Boler B1700
Posts: 14,935
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron in BC
Why would there be separate breakers for power going to outlets. Wouldn't the feed from the inverter go to a transfer switch, then go to the panel and then through the panel circuit breakers to the outlets?
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That makes sense for an inverter which feeds all 120V AC loads in the trailer - no extra panel (breaker box) needed. On the other hand, if only some circuits are fed from the inverter, then the transfer switch and a separate sub-panel (the small breaker box) handle those select circuits... thus my question.
The mystery to me was that Cathy believes that she has all circuits powered by the inverter, yet has the extra panel.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamman
The 120V side of the distribution panel is fed from the shore power cord and has only one bus. All unswitched (shore power only) circuits come from the panel - 120V water heater, Air Conditioner, 120V fridge, microwave if not switched.
All switched (transfer and inverter OR shore power) circuits use the auxiliary breaker box. I like having 2 (or more) breakers in it so you can use more than 15A when on shore power - if you spread the load across 2 or more circuits. ETI wired ours (one of the very early ETI transfer switch installs) with only one breaker - all outlets were on 1 15A circuit so I rewired it. http://www.escapeforum.org/forums/f8...mods-3279.html
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This makes perfect sense for the "only some circuits on inverter" scenario. The extra box is a sub-panel: it is downstream in the power flow, fed from the transfer switch. The transfer switch inputs are shore power from the main panel, and power from the inverter otherwise.
Cathy, it appears that only some circuits can be powered by the inverter - the ones connected to the sub-panel (the small breaker box). This makes perfect sense, because the circuits that cannot be inverter-powered ("shore power only", as Doug explained) are the ones which you logically would not want to power from the battery, as shown in your main panel photo: - Converter
- you can't charge the battery with the battery
- fridge
- if you run the refrigerator on the battery, you use 12V DC directly, not 120V AC
- H/W
- "Hot Water": this is the electric element in the water heater
- you would only use propane when depending on battery power
- this inverter cannot supply as much power as the water heater element takes
- A/C
- the air conditioner needs far too much power to run on battery
- the air conditioner takes more power than the inverter can supply
- Transfer Switch
- this is how shore power (when available) gets to the switch and then the sub-panel to run everything else
So all of the outlets work on inverter power, but not all of the 120V AC electrical stuff.
Labels on the sub-panel (grey box of breakers) should list all of the circuits that can be powered by the inverter. This should include all outlets, including the one for the microwave.
This combination of two panels and a transfer switch, with each 120V AC circuit attached to the appropriate panel, seems like the ideal configuration to me. Not really simple to undertand, but good.
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12-03-2015, 01:28 PM
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#30
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Trailer: 1979 Boler B1700
Posts: 14,935
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Floating Cloud
Heat pads 20. Hope that is both because it is not plural and that is all I see. Think there is only one switch.
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Presumably that covers both pads, with a total of 240 watts (20 amps multiplied by 12 volts). This is just the protective fuse, not a way to turn them on and off, so I agree with Jim...
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpaharley2008
There should be another switch to turn the heat pads on/off, mine was under the bed in the 19' and was a silver toggle switch. You may want to modify that switch and install a indicator light to remind you when the pads are on/off, similar to the water heater reminder.
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12-03-2015, 01:35 PM
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#31
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Trailer: 1979 Boler B1700
Posts: 14,935
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Floating Cloud
On post #5 photo, unfortunately dark but can be enlarged and seen better, I think there are two 15-amp breakers on the right. Believe they are related to the inverter.
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This is the sub-panel, so the circuits connected to it are for everything which can be powered from the inverter (and from shore power when it is available).
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamman
All switched (transfer and inverter OR shore power) circuits use the auxiliary breaker box. I like having 2 (or more) breakers in it so you can use more than 15A when on shore power - if you spread the load across 2 or more circuits. ETI wired ours (one of the very early ETI transfer switch installs) with only one breaker - all outlets were on 1 15A circuit so I rewired it. http://www.escapeforum.org/forums/f8...mods-3279.html
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There appear to be two breakers in Cathy's sub-panel box, but unfortunately I don't see readable labels (and the panel is buried in the cabinet rather than being accessible like the main panel). These breakers must supply the circuits for the microwave and all outlets.
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12-03-2015, 01:49 PM
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#32
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Denison, Texas
Trailer: 2015 21'; 2011 19' sold; 4Runner; ph ninezero3 327-27ninefour
Posts: 5,136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpaharley2008
There should be another switch to turn the heat pads on/off, mine was under the bed in the 19' and was a silver toggle switch. You may want to modify that switch and install a indicator light to remind you when the pads are on/off, similar to the water heater reminder.
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I think that is our silver toggle switch under the driver's side dinette. What switch are you talking about here? Those breakers? I expect the toggle switch has been moved from when yours was installed, Unless there is more than one silver toggle switch?
__________________
Cathy. Floating Cloud
"Live in the sunshine, swim the sea, drink the wild air.... "
Emerson
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12-03-2015, 02:04 PM
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#33
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Denison, Texas
Trailer: 2015 21'; 2011 19' sold; 4Runner; ph ninezero3 327-27ninefour
Posts: 5,136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamman
The 120V side of the distribution panel is fed from the shore power cord and has only one bus. All unswitched (shore power only) circuits come from the panel - 120V water heater, Air Conditioner, 120V fridge, microwave if not switched.
All switched (transfer and inverter OR shore power) circuits use the auxiliary breaker box. I like having 2 (or more) breakers in it so you can use more than 15A when on shore power - if you spread the load across 2 or more circuits. ETI wired ours (one of the very early ETI transfer switch installs) with only one breaker - all outlets were on 1 15A circuit so I rewired it. http://www.escapeforum.org/forums/f8...mods-3279.html
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I am pretty sure that those are two 15-amp breakers in the box on right in post #5 so I am supposing that you did not have that and it is an improvement they made.
__________________
Cathy. Floating Cloud
"Live in the sunshine, swim the sea, drink the wild air.... "
Emerson
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12-03-2015, 02:23 PM
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#34
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Trailer: 1979 Boler B1700
Posts: 14,935
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Floating Cloud
I am pretty sure that those are two 15-amp breakers in the box on right in post #5 so I am supposing that you did not have that and it is an improvement they made.
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Yes, that looks like two breakers so Escape has partially implemented an improvement which Doug pioneered - it's not just one circuit, but it's not split into as many as Doug has used.
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12-03-2015, 02:37 PM
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#35
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Trailer: 1979 Boler B1700
Posts: 14,935
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Floating Cloud
I think that is our silver toggle switch under the driver's side dinette. What switch are you talking about here? Those breakers?
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The heat pads are 12V powered - the breakers in the extra box (the sub-panel) are for 120V AC power, so they're not related. It might be worth going through all the visible switches, trying them out to see what they do, and adding (or clarifying) labels.
The other switch which is normally included is a battery cut-off, to disconnect the batteries (from everything except the solar power system) when the trailer is not in use.
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12-03-2015, 04:03 PM
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#36
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Central, Pennsylvania
Trailer: Escape#5 2022 E19
Posts: 26,268
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Floating Cloud
I think that is our silver toggle switch under the driver's side dinette. What switch are you talking about here? Those breakers? I expect the toggle switch has been moved from when yours was installed, Unless there is more than one silver toggle switch?
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I believe that silver toggle on the driver's dinette is the master cut off switch, at least that is what is on BlackJack. The heat pads switch is identical to that but is located ??, perhaps under the bed. In the 19 Escape it was under the rear bed, behind the dual doors on driver side. Look for another toggle switch.
__________________
Jim
Sometime life gets in the way of living.......
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12-03-2015, 04:49 PM
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#37
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Denison, Texas
Trailer: 2015 21'; 2011 19' sold; 4Runner; ph ninezero3 327-27ninefour
Posts: 5,136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpaharley2008
I believe that silver toggle on the driver's dinette is the master cut off switch, at least that is what is on BlackJack. The heat pads switch is identical to that but is located ??, perhaps under the bed. In the 19 Escape it was under the rear bed, behind the dual doors on driver side. Look for another toggle switch.
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Sorry, I meant that the toggle switch for the heat pads is inside the bench. (I use the master switch every time we go to the trailer and it is on the bench face, no doubt just like yours).
Our switch for the heat pads requires lifting the driver's side bench. It is down inside. So your early one is under the bed and they have moved the switch for the heat pads.
__________________
Cathy. Floating Cloud
"Live in the sunshine, swim the sea, drink the wild air.... "
Emerson
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12-03-2015, 04:50 PM
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#38
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Denison, Texas
Trailer: 2015 21'; 2011 19' sold; 4Runner; ph ninezero3 327-27ninefour
Posts: 5,136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpaharley2008
I believe that silver toggle on the driver's dinette is the master cut off switch, at least that is what is on BlackJack. The heat pads switch is identical to that but is located ??, perhaps under the bed. In the 19 Escape it was under the rear bed, behind the dual doors on driver side. Look for another toggle switch.
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Sorry, I meant that the toggle switch for the heat pads is inside the bench. (I use the master switch every time we go to the trailer and it is on the bench face, no doubt just like yours).
Our switch for the heat pads requires lifting the driver's side bench. It is down inside. So your early one is under the bed and they have moved the switch for the heat pads. I will take a photo some time or someone else can.
__________________
Cathy. Floating Cloud
"Live in the sunshine, swim the sea, drink the wild air.... "
Emerson
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12-03-2015, 05:16 PM
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#39
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: North Van., British Columbia
Trailer: 2014 Escape 19, sold; 2019 Escape 21, Sept. 2019
Posts: 8,743
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian B-P
Yes, that looks like two breakers so Escape has partially implemented an improvement which Doug pioneered - it's not just one circuit, but it's not split into as many as Doug has used.
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Yes, mine was made a few months after Doug posted his mods and the outlets are now on two separate circuits. Thanks Doug.
Ron
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12-03-2015, 05:56 PM
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#40
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Phoenix Metro Area, Arizona
Trailer: 2014 Escape 19
Posts: 767
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I think that should be thanks to Tammy and Reace. They listen to and act upon feedback. I am not aware of any other manufacturer of anything who is as responsive.
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