|
|
09-13-2019, 09:53 AM
|
#1
|
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Rangeley, Maine
Trailer: 2005 Escape 17B Sold 2016. 2016 Escape 19 Sold 2019. 2019 Escape 21 picked up Sep 2019
Posts: 173
|
AGM vs ETI 6V batteries
Hi all...
We're picking up our 21 in a couple weeks. As of right now, we're getting the ETI supplied 6 volt batteries. I've been reading lots on this forum about what a PITA it is to check the batteries in a 21. I've also seen "AGM" batteries referred to in several posts.
questions:
- what are the benefits of AGM batteries over the ETI supplied batteries?
- any thoughts on where we could pick up a set near Chilliwack?... or do you think we could have them shipped to ETI? Recommendations on sources?
Thanks for any info you can provide!
__________________
Dolly
These are the good old days!
|
|
|
09-13-2019, 10:55 AM
|
#2
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Central, Pennsylvania
Trailer: Escape#5 2022 E19
Posts: 26,268
|
Do as I did and request that the batteries be moved, maybe 3" to allow full access for checking the fluid level. It can be done...
__________________
Jim
Sometime life gets in the way of living.......
|
|
|
09-13-2019, 10:57 AM
|
#3
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Yarnell, Arizona
Trailer: 2024 Bigfoot 21 Rear Bed
Posts: 545
|
We had a 1st year (1996) Casita 17 SD. The only way to access the battery was from the driver's side bench access hatch, replacement of the battery with a lead acid battery required the bench removal. We did replace that battery with an AGM, at $450 it was exceedingly expensive for a 12 V 120 amp hr battery. We even managed to insert the new battery through the small across hatch by putting it on it's side. While the Escape 21 is not that difficult to access, AGM or lithium batteries are 2-4 times more expensive than conventional lead acid batteries.
__________________
Myrl and Gary
|
|
|
09-13-2019, 11:27 AM
|
#4
|
Junior Member
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Jackson, Wyoming
Trailer: 2019 Escape 21C- Toyota Tundra Double Cab Limited 2011
Posts: 19
|
I have Centennial AGM cb6-250 sealed that I had just bought on my old trailer. ETI let me bring them to orientation but they required pre approval so they know they fit in their battery box. They’re heavy but I never worry about power and almost always boondock. I’m not sure what brand ETI uses. It seems that you get what you pay for.
|
|
|
09-13-2019, 11:53 AM
|
#5
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: St. Paul, Minnesota
Trailer: 2014 Escape 21 -- The Skylark. Towed by a 2014 Highlander
Posts: 1,159
|
my factory-supplied 6v batteries were 5 years old. I replaced them with AGM batteries since I had been having issues with the propane detector going off.
As it turns out, there was either a leak in one of the batteries or I had spilled some of the fluid out when filling the batteries. There was fluid in the bottom of the battery box. When I lifted the batteries out and carried them to the car I must have gotten some battery acid on my jeans -- at least that is the best explanation for the holes that appeared in them the next day.
The Lifeline AGM batteries were expensive. Just over $800 + "2 Cores". But I was able to get them locally. If I were buying a new escape, I would specify AGM batteries.
I am not sure where the propane detector is in the latest 21s, but if it is right next to the battery box, I would also inquire and see if the detector could be moved to someplace less likely to go off when the batteries are being charged.
__________________
Camping: Where you spend a small fortune to live like a homeless person.
|
|
|
09-13-2019, 12:12 PM
|
#6
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: North Augusta, South Carolina
Trailer: 2019 Escape 5.0TA "SCRATCH" First 5.0 TA registered in South Carolina
Posts: 620
|
If you don't mind sitting or sleeping on a stewing cauldron of sulfuric acid that's constantly off gassing and your priority is to save some money then wet cell batteries are the way to go. Having witness what 6 volt wet cells can do a golf cart frame and a concrete floor I chose to spend more money. First get on line and do a bunch of research. Then make an educated decision based on your priorities and not my recommendations
__________________
"Everyday's a Holiday"
|
|
|
09-13-2019, 12:14 PM
|
#7
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Victoria, BC, British Columbia
Trailer: 2020 Escape 19
Posts: 132
|
Best AGM 6V?
I too am picking up a new trailer in a few months and have requested they don't install the stock batteries. I plan to upgrade to AGM (in addition to the low maintenance, they also hold their charge a lot better when not in use and are not susceptible to freezing). My question for the Forum is what is the best 6V AGM to buy? Any suggestions?
|
|
|
09-13-2019, 12:16 PM
|
#8
|
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Rangeley, Maine
Trailer: 2005 Escape 17B Sold 2016. 2016 Escape 19 Sold 2019. 2019 Escape 21 picked up Sep 2019
Posts: 173
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by jnfrombigt
If you don't mind sitting or sleeping on a stewing cauldron of sulfuric acid that's constantly off gassing ... Having witness what 6 volt wet cells can do a golf cart frame and a concrete floor I chose to spend more money.
|
Ok. That did it.
Thank you all!
__________________
Dolly
These are the good old days!
|
|
|
09-13-2019, 12:18 PM
|
#9
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Central, Pennsylvania
Trailer: Escape#5 2022 E19
Posts: 26,268
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jordan
I too am picking up a new trailer in a few months and have requested they don't install the stock batteries. I plan to upgrade to AGM (in addition to the low maintenance, they also hold their charge a lot better when not in use and are not susceptible to freezing). My question for the Forum is what is the best 6V AGM to buy? Any suggestions?
|
No worse off than going down the highway with your fireplace on and cooling down your beer....
__________________
Jim
Sometime life gets in the way of living.......
|
|
|
09-13-2019, 12:42 PM
|
#10
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: North Augusta, South Carolina
Trailer: 2019 Escape 5.0TA "SCRATCH" First 5.0 TA registered in South Carolina
Posts: 620
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by sallemann
Ok. That did it.
Thank you all!
|
One other battery chemistry you might research is carbon foam agm. More expensive than typical agm but deeper cycles and longer life. I thought about going in that direction and if I was a serious boondocker it would be either lithium or carbon foam agm. You can find the carbon foam at some boat supply shops in the Seattle area.
__________________
"Everyday's a Holiday"
|
|
|
09-13-2019, 12:49 PM
|
#11
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: North Vancouver, British Columbia
Trailer: 2009 Escape 17B 2020 Toyota Highlander XLE
Posts: 17,136
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jordan
they are not susceptible to freezing).
|
Nor are lead acid batteries.
As the state of charge in a battery decreases, the electrolyte becomes more like water and the freezing temperature increases. The freezing temperature of the electrolyte in a fully charged battery is -92.0oF. At a 40% state of charge, electrolyte will freeze if the temperature reaches approximately 16.0oF.
Trojan Battery Company
www.trojanbattery.com › Tech-Support › FAQ › Maintenance
__________________
What happens to the hole when the cheese is gone?
- Bertolt Brecht
|
|
|
09-13-2019, 01:09 PM
|
#12
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: North Augusta, South Carolina
Trailer: 2019 Escape 5.0TA "SCRATCH" First 5.0 TA registered in South Carolina
Posts: 620
|
You supposedly can take a lead acid battery "safely" down to 50% state of charge. A "wet cell" lead acid battery freeze point at 50% state of charge is minus 10 degrees F. "Been there and done that". I have a practically new 12v 88ah Interstate wet cell battery that will be given away free to the first person who will take the thing away
__________________
"Everyday's a Holiday"
|
|
|
09-13-2019, 01:12 PM
|
#13
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Arvada, Colorado
Trailer: 2015 E'21 - 'Velocity'. Tow: Toyota Tacoma V6, 4X4, manual.
Posts: 1,684
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by sallemann
Hi all...
We're picking up our 21 in a couple weeks. As of right now, we're getting the ETI supplied 6 volt batteries. I've been reading lots on this forum about what a PITA it is to check the batteries in a 21. I've also seen "AGM" batteries referred to in several posts.
questions:
- what are the benefits of AGM batteries over the ETI supplied batteries?
- any thoughts on where we could pick up a set near Chilliwack?... or do you think we could have them shipped to ETI? Recommendations on sources?
Thanks for any info you can provide!
|
I went with a pair of 12 Volt AGM batteries for the reasons others have mentioned: very little maintenance required, no gasses produced under normal conditions, a bit more resistant to over-discharge damage, lower self-discharge. My decision was biased by 2011(?) purchase of a similar battery for my electric trolling motor - still going strong. When I ordered my Escape I specified the single standard battery as the lowest cost option knowing that it was going to be given away shortly.
I was lucky enough to get some of the last Sears AGM batteries - rebranded Odyssey size 31 - for a very good price thanks to heavy discounting. Alas for poor Sears and future purchasers - the prices have about doubled. But if I had to do it again I would still want to purchase the same setup.
--
Alan
|
|
|
09-13-2019, 01:15 PM
|
#14
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Victoria, BC, British Columbia
Trailer: 2020 Escape 19
Posts: 132
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by alanmalk
I went with a pair of 12 Volt AGM batteries for the reasons others have mentioned: very little maintenance required, no gasses produced under normal conditions, a bit more resistant to over-discharge damage, lower self-discharge. My decision was biased by 2011(?) purchase of a similar battery for my electric trolling motor - still going strong. When I ordered my Escape I specified the single standard battery as the lowest cost option knowing that it was going to be given away shortly.
I was lucky enough to get some of the last Sears AGM batteries - rebranded Odyssey size 31 - for a very good price thanks to heavy discounting. Alas for poor Sears and future purchasers - the prices have about doubled. But if I had to do it again I would still want to purchase the same setup.
--
Alan
|
Alan - why did you choose two 12V AGM instead of two 6V AGM?
|
|
|
09-13-2019, 02:54 PM
|
#15
|
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Sarita, Texas
Trailer: 2019 Escape 21
Posts: 518
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jordan
I too am picking up a new trailer in a few months and have requested they don't install the stock batteries. I plan to upgrade to AGM (in addition to the low maintenance, they also hold their charge a lot better when not in use and are not susceptible to freezing). My question for the Forum is what is the best 6V AGM to buy? Any suggestions?
|
I have Trojans (AGM) that I took to orientation and ETI installed them. Great batteries. They've been making them long enough to be good at it.
__________________
Why have I never heard of a 'Physic' winning the lottery?
|
|
|
09-13-2019, 04:36 PM
|
#16
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Trailer: 1979 Boler B1700
Posts: 14,935
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jordan
I plan to upgrade to AGM (in addition to the low maintenance, they also hold their charge a lot better when not in use and are not susceptible to freezing).
|
It is not true that AGM batteries are not susceptible to freezing, so I would not trust the source of this information. AGM and flooded batteries use the same water-based electrolyte, and the glass fibre mat in an AGM battery does not prevent the electrolyte from freezing. While AGM batteries may tolerate freezing better than flooded batteries, they do freeze if not adequately charged, and they are damaged by freezing.
The Trojan Battery User Guide covers both flooded and AGM types, and distinguishes between them for operational aspects where they differ, and makes no exception to protection from freezing for AGM. Trojan's warranty for AGM batteries excludes coverage of batteries damaged due to improper handling, operation and maintenance, including specifically if they are frozen.
The Odyssey owner's manual has a section on winter storage which claims that the battery will not freeze until -40 degrees, but it also requires that the battery be fully charged before storage and assumes that it will not self-discharge at all over a winter. Leave it discharged, put it in cold conditions, and you get a worthless frozen lump.
AGM still have advantages, including a lower rate of self-discharge (and thus a longer time to freeze), but immunity to freezing is not one of them.
|
|
|
09-13-2019, 04:54 PM
|
#17
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: North Augusta, South Carolina
Trailer: 2019 Escape 5.0TA "SCRATCH" First 5.0 TA registered in South Carolina
Posts: 620
|
AGM batteries can freeze and you absolutely should not use or charge a frozen battery but there is a big difference between an AGM and a flooded wet cell: "AGM batteries can withstand freezing - you will get little or no output from a frozen battery, but at least it will not ruin the battery or break the case."
Arizona Wind and Power
__________________
"Everyday's a Holiday"
|
|
|
09-13-2019, 05:02 PM
|
#18
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Trailer: 1979 Boler B1700
Posts: 14,935
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by jnfrombigt
...
"AGM batteries can withstand freezing - you will get little or no output from a frozen battery, but at least it will not ruin the battery or break the case."
Arizona Wind and Power
|
That might seem true in Arizona (where it once in history got to -40 degrees in one place), but we have had a mobility scooter for about a decade, and I have only had to replace the AGM batteries after they have been left in the van with too little charge for winter conditions. The cases have never broken, and the batteries can be charged after thawing (both of which are also true for flooded automotive starting batteries, in my experience), but their capacity is largely lost. Tolerance of freezing will vary by brand, but survival without damage should not be assumed.
|
|
|
09-13-2019, 07:30 PM
|
#19
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Arvada, Colorado
Trailer: 2015 E'21 - 'Velocity'. Tow: Toyota Tacoma V6, 4X4, manual.
Posts: 1,684
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jordan
Alan - why did you choose two 12V AGM instead of two 6V AGM?
|
Primarily because of cost. Sears didn't offer a 6V AGM option and brand name AGM's cost considerably more.
There was no downside. A pair of 12V in parallel has roughly the same AH as a pair of 6V in series, assuming the pairs weighed the same.
I was worried that there might be some loss as each battery tried to charge the other (can't happen with series batteries), but I measured the circulating current over a weeks time and it approached 5 milliamps (0.005 Amp). This loss was compensated by a few minutes of solar per month from the roof mounted 160 watt panel. Non-issue...
If and when I switch to Lithium it will also be a parallel pair.
--
Alan
|
|
|
09-13-2019, 07:49 PM
|
#20
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Upstate, New York
Trailer: 2017 Escape 19 - June 27, 2017
Posts: 279
|
We used the two ETI supplied 6V's for one season. Upgraded to 2 GPL-4CT Lifeline AGM 6-volt batteries during the winter and donated the flooded Interstates to a friend who had a use for them. Basically, we wanted low maintenance and the opportunity to upgrade presented itself. I'm sure we could have run the Interstates for several years.
|
|
|
|
|
Thread Tools |
|
Display Modes |
Linear Mode
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
|
» Recent Discussions |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|