Curious About Propane Refilling

[John in Santa Cruz]

yeah, all my late model OPD tanks, the tip valve on the stem inside seems to close at 4.6 or 4.7 gallons, which at 4.2 lbs/gallon translates to 20 lbs.

[wetzk]

Originally Posted by Jim Bennett

I hate doing that, and have had to when it was my only option. You then end up with a crappy tank too.

Most will accept expired tanks so I have gone in when Lowe's has the $12.99 sale on prefilled tanks and traded in the out of date ones. Even few years more is worth it and I get some propane to boot.

[CharlesPou]

Originally Posted by gbaglo

I hope you also contacted the gas station company and appropriate government agency.

good thread, enjoyed reading it.

I live in TX, and recently found out there is absolutely no state regulation of propane refill stations in TX. I'm not surprised, that's considered "business friendly", which TX is very proud of. however, TX never mentions the corollary "maybe bad for the consumer?".

I've been having my propane tanks refilled last 2 years since getting my new 2018 Escape 21. have refilled in TX, NM, AZ, CO so far and most do it properly IMO. I know enough now to realize tank should be on a scale and have the bleed value open as it's being refilled. if they are not doing those 2 things, watch out, you're likely to have an overfilled tank.

I reported a KOA refill station in NM and the state was very interested. state agent was actually concerned for my safety, and spent some time on the phone explanning all the details about properly filling propane tanks. so when same thing happened in TX, I called the state and got "we don't regulate, will only get involved after the fact if something bad happens". good business for personal injury lawyers, I guess.

the NM agent said the most dangerous thing with an overfilled tank is for it to get hot, have too much pressure and start leaking, or worse. he also mentioned an overfilled tank will sometimes not create gas, or can freeze/ damage the regulator. so, you get your propane tank overfilled, are out in the boonies, and can't use it.

last time it happened in TX, I took the tank off the trailer and out a ways, opened the overfill screw, and released some liquid propane. then I put it back on the trailer and started using it 1st is get the level down some. both times the weather was cool, so maybe not as dangerous? in hot weather, I would probably drain out enough liquid until it stopped flowing?

pretty crazy IMO, but that's the way it is. I actually watched a youtube vid when I realized my tank was overfilled in NM. the youtube guy took the complete value assembly off top of the tank and poured out about a gallon of propane on the ground. I knew that was nuts, that's when I call NM, and got the state agent. cheers

[John in Santa Cruz]

the OBD valves on modern propane tanks pretty much eliminate overfilling. mine consistently take 4.5 gallons, which leaves plenty of headroom for expansion. never seen anyone use a scale when filling, everyone here sells by volume, but they definitely open the bleed valve or nothing will go in.

[Jim Bennett]

Other than the under filled trade in tanks, programs is sold by weight around here. The track has its weight on it, so they just bring the weight up to an additional 20 lbs. Easy peasy, and I only pay for the weight/volume added. I've seen this in lots of places in the US too.

[Calicia]

A few years back in Houston I called a Uhaul to ask if they filled propane tanks and was told “yes, it’s self serve”. When I asked what that meant she said “you fill it yourself and come in to pay”. Needless to say I found another place to buy my propane.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz

the OBD valves on modern propane tanks pretty much eliminate overfilling. mine consistently take 4.5 gallons, which leaves plenty of headroom for expansion.

That's the purpose of the Overfill Prevention Device (OPD), but it's only a backup - not reliable enough for primary control of filling. The bleed valve or weight must be used to safely determine when it is full.

Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz

never seen anyone use a scale when filling, everyone here sells by volume, but they definitely open the bleed valve or nothing will go in.

Just watching volume added is not an adequate or safe method of controlling the amount of propane added, because the tank may not have been empty before filling started. The bleed valve is opened to monitor for the correct level being reached: liquid spurts out when the liquid level reaches the dip tube level.

Unlike bleeding air from a tank being filled with water (for instance), there is no need to bleed propane vapour when filling with propane, just as air in not let into the tank as the propane is taken out. The bleed valve is only for indicating level. The propane vapour in the tank condenses as the rising liquid level reduces the vapour volume.

No one opens the bleed valve on a portable tank when filling by weight here, and they fill fine. Bleed valves are only opened on tanks that can't be weighed, such as large tanks for those mounted on vehicles; in those cases the bleed valve is used, and the tank's inlet is normally equipped with a stop-fill device (like an OPD, but certified for controlling fill level).

[John in Santa Cruz]

ah, ok, so yeah, the bleed valve is the give-away to shut it off, ok. they do it so fast that even when I've watched them fill 2-3 in a row, I guess I misunderstood that aspect. 20 or 30 years of getting propane tanks filled in various parts of California and the greater west, and I don't think I've ever seen anyone weigh one.

[gbaglo]

Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz

20 or 30 years of getting propane tanks filled in various parts of California and the greater west, and I don't think I've ever seen anyone weigh one.

So, all that time you've been paying twice for whatever is left over in the tank?

[John in Santa Cruz]

no, their filling station meters the propane by gallon to the nearest 0.1. if I fill three tanks at once, they reset the meter once before filling all 3 then read the total.

[Chamberman]

Originally Posted by Calicia

A few years back in Houston I called a Uhaul to ask if they filled propane tanks and was told “yes, it’s self serve”. When I asked what that meant she said “you fill it yourself and come in to pay”. Needless to say I found another place to buy my propane.

I've used two local Uhaul places here outside of Dallas for propane fill-ups for over >25yrs now. They've always been a hands off arrangement. The pump cabinet is locked with a padlock and I have to wait by the pump for their employee to show up and unlock it and then watch them fill the tanks. A couple of times I went to the local Traders Village RV park and had them fill my propane tanks and it was the same situation, employees only.

[C&G in FL]

I have typically found a mix of payment methods in almost any locality. Some charge a fixed amount per fill, others by metered amount dispensed. Tractor Supply charges by the gallon so you can “top off” partially filled tanks. As such, TSC is my go to preference for propane purchases.

[Chamberman]

Originally Posted by wetzk

Most will accept expired tanks so I have gone in when Lowe's has the $12.99 sale on prefilled tanks and traded in the out of date ones. Even few years more is worth it and I get some propane to boot.

I do the same thing. Tank expires,,,,,, Time to get a prefilled. I've never had one of the Home Depot or Lowes employee's look at the expiration date they just swap them out. I did the same thing back when they made the switch many years ago from the POL valves to the QCC1 valves. I slowly rotated them all out. Only one of my 3 tanks was rejected for having the old style valve. I went to another place to trade it and they took it no problem.

[rbryan4]

Originally Posted by Jim Bennett

Other than the under filled trade in tanks, programs is sold by weight around here. The track has its weight on it, so they just bring the weight up to an additional 20 lbs. Easy peasy, and I only pay for the weight/volume added. I've seen this in lots of places in the US too.

And that is the way to do it. If you buy your propane from somewhere that doesn't actually weigh it so you can see, then go buy it somewhere else. Exchanging for prefilled tanks is a sure fire way to pay more per pound, and to have way underfilled tanks to boot. They're called 20lb tanks because they're designed to hold 20lbs - not 14.

[DWM3]

I've been filling tanks in California for many years, and no one has ever weighed one. It's filled while the spit valve is open. When propane comes out it's full. You get charged by the gallon. Since I've learned more about propane, I use a luggage scale to weigh each tank. Never had an overfill.

[Perry Butler]

Originally Posted by gbaglo

So, all that time you've been paying twice for whatever is left over in the tank?

Ah........every place I go uses a meter to charge according to what is put in the tank. I haven't seen a scale used in years! Unless completely empty that amount always changes. We almost exclusively use Tractor Supply to puchase our LP (propane for the other part of the world).

Enjoy,

Perry

[Chamberman]

A scale is used here locally but its purpose is to shut off the pump at the predetermined weight set by the operator. When the scale shuts the pump off they switch tanks and reset the scale then start the pump again. I generally fill 3 tanks at a time. When I go to pay they charge me for the total gallons of propane as read at the pump.

[Brian B-P]

I doubt that it is legal under safety regulations anywhere in North America for customer to fill their own propane tank, of any size or type, at any facility... but there may be some exception. On the other hand, I would be more comfortable doing it myself than letting a random kid at a gas station do it without me monitoring what they do. The cost and lack of "trained" personnel is one reason for the popularity of prefilled tank exchanges; the local Walmart here even has a prefilled tank vending machine, so they don't even send someone out to open the cage and trade the tanks.

I have only seen a propane attendant check the date at one location (a Costco). They also don't check the tare weight, assuming that it must be the typical weight of an empty steel tank of the size... which will be very wrong for an aluminum or composite tank, and may be out by up to 5% or so for a common steel tank.

Originally Posted by Chamberman

A scale is used here locally but its purpose is to shut off the pump at the predetermined weight set by the operator. When the scale shuts the pump off they switch tanks and reset the scale then start the pump again. I generally fill 3 tanks at a time. When I go to pay they charge me for the total gallons of propane as read at the pump.

That - or charging by the weight added - is the perfect system. I've never seen it done, anywhere in Canada , but of course I've only been to a few random filling stations.

[padamas]

After reading through this thread, I think I know what answer I'll get, but...

Have any of you ever refilled those small green propane cylinders from a 20 lb tank?

There are several videos on YouTube demonstrating how easy it is, and claiming that there is a substantial saving to be had by reusing those tanks.

[gbaglo]

Nope. For one, those 1 lb. tank leak when detached from the appliance, although, I'm told you can buy brass threaded caps.
I've got a 10 lb. tank for my BBQ. Used to have a 5 lb. I prefer not running out and having to change tanks while cooking.
I use battery-powered LED lantern when needed, which isn't often.