Dumb question for smart people... - Page 3 - Escape Trailer Owners Community
Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×

Go Back   Escape Trailer Owners Community > Escape Tech > Escape Systems | Water, Waste, Charging & Propane
Click Here to Login
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 04-25-2017, 01:29 PM   #41
Senior Member
 
C&G in FL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Tampa Bay Area, Florida
Trailer: 2015 Escape 5.0TA (Little Elsie) Extensively Personalized
Posts: 2,960
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReagentGrade View Post
I think the magic number is actually 12.1V at 50% usage. I believe 10.7V is almost completely discharged.
Yes, you are correct. I was so concerned about newbies not understanding what 50% meant that I felt it should be expressed as voltage rather than a percentage. And without thinking, I posted what is 0% rather than 50%. I believe Reace has been quoted by others as saying it is best not to let the battery/batteries drop below 11.8 volts.
__________________
What a long strange trip it’s been!
C&G in FL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2017, 02:46 PM   #42
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Surrey, British Columbia
Trailer: 2014 Escape 19'
Posts: 264
Quote:
Originally Posted by blhvet View Post
Picked up new fuses today. Hope to replace tomorrow IF IT EVER quits snowing.

Kirk, thanks for the indepth info. So, am I to take it that I can't run the 1500W heater off the solar and battery? It has 2 setting - the low one might be 750W. (I know I have a furnace - my "frugality" wants me to run electric if I can instead of propane".)

The inverter can be used for low-wattage items, such as a TV or laptop for a few hours, or a shorter duration for higher wattage items (things that generate a lot of heat) - such as a drip coffee maker or travel hair dryer. As others have said, you would not want to run your electric heater from the inverter, you have a furnace to use when you do not have an electric hookup.

Your solar panel should normally keep your battery well charged for essential electric items, such as lighting, furnace, and other 12V built-ins, and moderate inverter usage. How much electricity (both 12V and AC from the inverter) you want to use beyond the essentials will depend on how much sun is available, and how long you are going without shore power.

You will see how the normal daily cycle of charging and depletion works under different shade and weather conditions if you check the solar monitor panel at different times of the day and evening. After using your trailer for a while, you will have a better feel for how much you can use the inverter for non-essential items.
__________________
Kirk & Shelley
2014 19'
Surrey, Beautiful BC, Canada
KirkB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2017, 03:50 PM   #43
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Trailer: 1979 Boler B1700
Posts: 14,935
Quote:
Originally Posted by blhvet View Post
So, am I to take it that I can't run the 1500W heater off the solar and battery? It has 2 setting - the low one might be 750W. (I know I have a furnace - my "frugality" wants me to run electric if I can instead of propane".)
Since the 40-amp fuse has nothing to do with the inverter, blowing that fuse has nothing to do with what you can run on the inverter.

The 1500 watt output of the inverter is just barely enough to run the heater, so you could use the heater on even the 1500 watt setting. The problem is that - as others have explained - you can't do that for very long before running out of energy stored in the battery.

The solar panel is only rated to produce 160 watts, so an hour of solar panel operation would only put enough energy into the battery to run the 1500 watt heater for six minutes. Also, the panel can only produce that 160 watts under perfectly ideal conditions: full sun at noon in a desert with the trailer tilted to face the panel directly toward the sun. In the real world, a whole day of summer sun exposure might enable the panel to produce enough energy to run the heater at 1500 watts for 40 minutes. That's a lot of energy to run lights, water pump, and electronics, and even the furnace fan... but not much for electric heating.

You really can use the solar system to run high-power electric appliances like this (including a microwave oven, toaster, or kettle)... but only for a few minutes a day, not the hours you would want to run a room heater.
Brian B-P is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2017, 03:56 PM   #44
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Trailer: 1979 Boler B1700
Posts: 14,935
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReagentGrade View Post
In fact, the the fan/blower in your PROPANE furnace is your biggest power hog. On a really cold night, the propane heater can tax your batteries. But nothing like an electric heater.
The furnace fan really can use up stored energy. For instance, while running, it uses as much power as a whole trailer interior worth of LED lighting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ReagentGrade View Post
I think the furnace uses about 6 amps when running (it might be less).
...
I may have over estimated the furnaces power usage. If it only uses 5 amps when running, the math looks even better.
It's even better than that: the Atwood AFSAD12 furnace currently installed by Escape draws 2.4 amps.
Brian B-P is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2017, 04:15 PM   #45
Senior Member
 
float5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Denison, Texas
Trailer: 2015 21'; 2011 19' sold; 4Runner; ph ninezero3 327-27ninefour
Posts: 5,136
Quote:
Originally Posted by blhvet View Post
Picked up new fuses today. Hope to replace tomorrow IF IT EVER quits snowing.

Kirk, thanks for the indepth info. So, am I to take it that I can't run the 1500W heater off the solar and battery? It has 2 setting - the low one might be 750W. (I know I have a furnace - my "frugality" wants me to run electric if I can instead of propane".)

You need to tell Escape the situation. Let them know what you have looked at. Get them to agree to what you are doing beforehand. You have a new trailer with a warranty. You might want to protect that by confirming with them and getting their ideas.

KirkB mentioned a good point, namely, the inverter is usually off. We only have turned it on for a couple of minutes at a time when using high-draw items. You might have had something high-draw going.
__________________
Cathy. Floating Cloud
"Live in the sunshine, swim the sea, drink the wild air.... "
Emerson
float5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2017, 04:42 PM   #46
Senior Member
 
alanmalk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Arvada, Colorado
Trailer: 2015 E'21 - 'Velocity'. Tow: Toyota Tacoma V6, 4X4, manual.
Posts: 1,682
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian B-P View Post
...
It's even better than that: the Atwood AFSAD12 furnace currently installed by Escape draws 2.4 amps.
I measured the furnace fan on my 2015 Escape 21. It draws 2.7 amps.

Doing the math with a pair of 6 V batteries holding 220 amp hours - 220/2.6 = 84 hours to battery 0% (totally flat). More than enough for a cold night or two.

Now, at the risk of stirring up the hornets nest, let me say that the rule of thumb of not drawing more than 50% from your batteries is only a generalization. The purpose is to get absolute maximum life (7? 8? years) from your batteries. But we're here to camp and have fun and not be a slave to the battery voltmeter. These are deep cycle batteries and a few discharges down to the 70% or 80% level may not even be noticed in the long run. Just try to recharge the batteries as soon as practical - otherwise don't fret about it. Looking at Donna's chart - red starts at 90%.

I say the above based on real world use of my electric trolling motor and battery. I was cleaning out some old junk and found the receipt for the battery - April, 2011. I fish from a pontoon boat and run the motor all day and don't even bother to check the voltage, but charge it up after every trip. My first trip of 2017, last week, and the battery is still going strong. Never once worried about % of discharge and now in its 7th season. (It is AGM which may or may not make some difference).


--
Alan
alanmalk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2017, 04:50 PM   #47
Senior Member
 
KarenH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Bellingham and Glacier, Washington
Trailer: 2013 Escape 15A
Posts: 2,051
Send a message via Skype™ to KarenH
Quote:
Originally Posted by alanmalk View Post
Now, at the risk of stirring up the hornets nest, let me say that the rule of thumb of not drawing more than 50% from your batteries is only a generalization. The purpose is to get absolute maximum life (7? 8? years) from your batteries. But we're here to camp and have fun and not be a slave to the battery voltmeter. These are deep cycle batteries and a few discharges down to the 70% or 80% level may not even be noticed in the long run. Just try to recharge the batteries as soon as practical - otherwise don't fret about it. Looking at Donna's chart - red starts at 90%.
Amen. Best thing I've read on batteries in some time. And I, too, have experience with big battery banks as my cabin, which is off-grid, uses batteries as my only source of power.
__________________
Karen Hulford
2013 Escape 15A, "Egbert"
'93 Ford 150 XLT or
'22 GMC Acadia Denali
KarenH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2017, 05:23 PM   #48
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Trailer: 1979 Boler B1700
Posts: 14,935
Quote:
Originally Posted by alanmalk View Post
I measured the furnace fan on my 2015 Escape 21. It draws 2.7 amps.
Actual data - that's always good.

The 2.4 amp value is from Atwood's specs in the installation and operation manual, and says it is for 12-volt supply. Actual current will depend on supply voltage.
Brian B-P is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-26-2017, 02:38 AM   #49
Senior Member
 
blhvet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Myrnam, Alberta
Trailer: 2005 Aliner, 17B due in April/17
Posts: 372
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian B-P View Post
Since the 40-amp fuse has nothing to do with the inverter, blowing that fuse has nothing to do with what you can run on the inverter.

The 1500 watt output of the inverter is just barely enough to run the heater, so you could use the heater on even the 1500 watt setting. The problem is that - as others have explained - you can't do that for very long before running out of energy stored in the battery.

The solar panel is only rated to produce 160 watts, so an hour of solar panel operation would only put enough energy into the battery to run the 1500 watt heater for six minutes. Also, the panel can only produce that 160 watts under perfectly ideal conditions: full sun at noon in a desert with the trailer tilted to face the panel directly toward the sun. In the real world, a whole day of summer sun exposure might enable the panel to produce enough energy to run the heater at 1500 watts for 40 minutes. That's a lot of energy to run lights, water pump, and electronics, and even the furnace fan... but not much for electric heating.

You really can use the solar system to run high-power electric appliances like this (including a microwave oven, toaster, or kettle)... but only for a few minutes a day, not the hours you would want to run a room heater.
Thanks, Brian. Guess this is something I should've checked into more before getting all the outlets linked to the inverter - probably one would've been enough. No matter how much research a person does before choosing options, it seems there's always more to learn. Just trying to figure out what I actually could use those outlets for now... A lot to be said for a kettle on the stove, using the furnace, etc....
blhvet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-26-2017, 03:59 AM   #50
Senior Member
 
C&G in FL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Tampa Bay Area, Florida
Trailer: 2015 Escape 5.0TA (Little Elsie) Extensively Personalized
Posts: 2,960
Quote:
Originally Posted by blhvet View Post
Thanks, Brian. Guess this is something I should've checked into more before getting all the outlets linked to the inverter - probably one would've been enough. No matter how much research a person does before choosing options, it seems there's always more to learn. Just trying to figure out what I actually could use those outlets for now... A lot to be said for a kettle on the stove, using the furnace, etc....
Having all the outlets linked to an inverter is actually a convenience. It allows you to use AC power anywhere in the trailer rather than just one spot. But you have to be aware of battery/batteries limitations.

I elected to forego a built in inverter for the very reasons Brian has enumerated. While I have a small, 150 watt pure sine wave inverter to power the television if necessary, everything essential (lights, heat, hot water, refrigeration) can be adequately supplied by a combination of battery power, solar, and propane. Yes, I can't use my Mr. Coffee, but the 6 cup percolator works fine when necessary. No microwave: Oh well, use the grill or the stove. Can't use the grill or the stove because I am overnighting at Walmart or Crackerbarrel, purchase something at the deli at Walmart or enjoy both dinner and breakfast at Crackerbarrel. While some would disagree, IMO the inverter option, given its price and its potential usefulness is the "worst" bargain on ETI's list of options.
__________________
What a long strange trip it’s been!
C&G in FL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-26-2017, 06:38 AM   #51
Senior Member
 
cpaharley2008's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Central, Pennsylvania
Trailer: Escape#5 2022 E19
Posts: 26,268
Quote:
Originally Posted by blhvet View Post
Thanks, Brian. Guess this is something I should've checked into more before getting all the outlets linked to the inverter - probably one would've been enough. No matter how much research a person does before choosing options, it seems there's always more to learn. Just trying to figure out what I actually could use those outlets for now... A lot to be said for a kettle on the stove, using the furnace, etc....
By the time you get your third Escape you will have it down pat and know exactly what you need vs what you want. Personally I have never seen the need for an inverter when you plan your use and know that between propane and 12v you will be comfortable(except for air conditioning). I had an all electric trailer so I had to have hookups but yearned for the propane freedom. Actually it was caused by our state parks, they seem to discriminate against dog owners and most dog allowed sites were non electric, thus the need for electric use freedom. Like Carl says, it is really not needed.
__________________
Jim
Sometime life gets in the way of living.......
cpaharley2008 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-26-2017, 08:45 AM   #52
Senior Member
 
float5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Denison, Texas
Trailer: 2015 21'; 2011 19' sold; 4Runner; ph ninezero3 327-27ninefour
Posts: 5,136
Alan, do you have the furnace in the drawer stack or the dinette? Believe it was moved in 2015. (Or maybe 2014) Older model furnaces draw maybe 3.4 whereas the newer one is supposed to draw 2.4.

I suppose that you have the newer one in the drawer stack and it is interesting to know that it draws more than they said it would.
__________________
Cathy. Floating Cloud
"Live in the sunshine, swim the sea, drink the wild air.... "
Emerson
float5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-26-2017, 09:13 AM   #53
Senior Member
 
cpaharley2008's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Central, Pennsylvania
Trailer: Escape#5 2022 E19
Posts: 26,268
Actually that is backwards, the older Atwood Everest model was around 2.0 a/h whereas the newer model was closer to 3.0 a/h
__________________
Jim
Sometime life gets in the way of living.......
cpaharley2008 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-26-2017, 09:22 AM   #54
Senior Member
 
float5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Denison, Texas
Trailer: 2015 21'; 2011 19' sold; 4Runner; ph ninezero3 327-27ninefour
Posts: 5,136
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpaharley2008 View Post
Actually that is backwards, the older Atwood Everest model was around 2.0 a/h whereas the newer model was closer to 3.0 a/h
It depends upon which model. Some older ones are more amps, as is ours, 3.4.
__________________
Cathy. Floating Cloud
"Live in the sunshine, swim the sea, drink the wild air.... "
Emerson
float5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-26-2017, 09:25 AM   #55
Senior Member
 
alanmalk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Arvada, Colorado
Trailer: 2015 E'21 - 'Velocity'. Tow: Toyota Tacoma V6, 4X4, manual.
Posts: 1,682
Quote:
Originally Posted by float5 View Post
Alan, do you have the furnace in the drawer stack or the dinette? Believe it was moved in 2015. (Or maybe 2014) Older model furnaces draw maybe 3.4 whereas the newer one is supposed to draw 2.4.
My trailer was constructed in early 2015 and has the older style installation under the dinette.

--
Alan
alanmalk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-26-2017, 09:28 AM   #56
Senior Member
 
float5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Denison, Texas
Trailer: 2015 21'; 2011 19' sold; 4Runner; ph ninezero3 327-27ninefour
Posts: 5,136
Quote:
Originally Posted by alanmalk View Post
My trailer was constructed in early 2015 and has the older style installation under the dinette.

--
Alan
I don't know what you have then. I think ours is a different model from yours even though ours is under the dinette --- don't think we have what was installed as standard.
I only know what we have and it is older and supposed to draw 3.4.

The newer ones in the drawer stack are said to draw 2.4.

I am glad to hear that yours drew only 2.7 Maybe that means that ours does not use as many amps as expected. Edit: see below.
__________________
Cathy. Floating Cloud
"Live in the sunshine, swim the sea, drink the wild air.... "
Emerson
float5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-26-2017, 10:02 AM   #57
Senior Member
 
float5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Denison, Texas
Trailer: 2015 21'; 2011 19' sold; 4Runner; ph ninezero3 327-27ninefour
Posts: 5,136
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpaharley2008 View Post
Actually that is backwards, the older Atwood Everest model was around 2.0 a/h whereas the newer model was closer to 3.0 a/h
I want to correct my previous remarks. Yes, what you are saying is correct for those models. We have a different model and it draws more.

So Alan's is probably supposed to draw only 1.8 but he found it draws 2.7. So much for what the manufacturer says. No telling what ours or anyone's draws then!
__________________
Cathy. Floating Cloud
"Live in the sunshine, swim the sea, drink the wild air.... "
Emerson
float5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-26-2017, 10:48 AM   #58
Senior Member
 
cpaharley2008's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Central, Pennsylvania
Trailer: Escape#5 2022 E19
Posts: 26,268
My 2014 Escape 21, built in November, 2013 had the dinette mount and the Atwood model, Sometime, mid 2015, Escape switched to the amidships location and different model.
__________________
Jim
Sometime life gets in the way of living.......
cpaharley2008 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-26-2017, 12:17 PM   #59
Senior Member
 
float5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Denison, Texas
Trailer: 2015 21'; 2011 19' sold; 4Runner; ph ninezero3 327-27ninefour
Posts: 5,136
Some people had old models put in in mid-2015 and after ---after the change in location. Only a few of us, doubt even a handful.
__________________
Cathy. Floating Cloud
"Live in the sunshine, swim the sea, drink the wild air.... "
Emerson
float5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-26-2017, 12:33 PM   #60
Senior Member
 
alanmalk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Arvada, Colorado
Trailer: 2015 E'21 - 'Velocity'. Tow: Toyota Tacoma V6, 4X4, manual.
Posts: 1,682
Quote:
Originally Posted by float5 View Post
I want to correct my previous remarks. Yes, what you are saying is correct for those models. We have a different model and it draws more.

So Alan's is probably supposed to draw only 1.8 but he found it draws 2.7. So much for what the manufacturer says. No telling what ours or anyone's draws then!
Well, at the risk of confusing the issue, my unit draws 2.7 amps while running, but draws 3.4 amps while starting up during the ignition process. And, as a previous poster pointed out, the drain also depends somewhat on the current battery voltage. And some units just draw more, or less. Etc, etc. The manufacturer probably has to pick the biggest number to be safe.

Now, to un-confuse. Its the long term average that counts over the whole night. Call it 3 amps and don't even worry that the furnace is on 75% and off 25%. 3 amps times 8 hours and the max drain on your batteries is 24 amp-hours. Your batteries are 10 times bigger (twin 6's) so nothing to worry about for a day or three.

More important, at least to me, if my furnace needs to run 100% at night, it is too cold and I'm going home.

--
Alan
alanmalk is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by Escape Trailer Industries or any of its affiliates. This is an independent, unofficial site.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:45 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright 2023 Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.