Dumb question for smart people... - Page 2 - Escape Trailer Owners Community
Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×

Go Back   Escape Trailer Owners Community > Escape Tech > Escape Systems | Water, Waste, Charging & Propane
Click Here to Login
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 04-23-2017, 09:34 PM   #21
Senior Member
 
Iowa Dave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Benton County, Iowa
Trailer: 2013 Escape 21 Classic Number 6, pulled by 2018 Toyota Highlander
Posts: 8,235
Fuses

While there may be more than one problem in play here, Brian may well be correct on the blown 40 amp fuse. Dead shorted by whatever means whether the owner realizes this was happening or not, will blow the 40 amp fuse. New ones are about $4 and it probably would not hurt to have one spare. This happened to me about a year ago when I was plugging in the trailer and did not get the plug lined up correctly. New fuse, good to go. Mine is right at the dual 6 volt batteries in my front storage box. I've also got a fuse coming off the tow
Vehicle battery, installed when my hitch was wired up. I have never blown that one.
YMMV
Dave
Iowa Dave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2017, 09:49 PM   #22
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: North of Danbury, Wisconsin
Trailer: 2018 Escape 21C
Posts: 3,033
If your able to visually examine the fuse link of the blown fuse you can usually determine if the fuse blew because of an overload or a short circuit. When troubleshooting an electrical issue knowing why the fuse blew is a critical factor.
steve dunham is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2017, 10:36 PM   #23
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Westcliffe, Colorado
Trailer: 2010 EggCamper (#083); 2017 Escape 21 (#053); 2016 F-150 5.0L FX4
Posts: 1,765
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iowa Dave View Post
... This happened to me about a year ago when I was plugging in the trailer and did not get the plug lined up correctly.
If I follow you correctly, this is why it is recommended that the tow vehicle NOT be running (ignition key in the OFF position) when one plugs the trailer's power cord into the tow vehicle's power receptacle. Prevents accidental "brush by" short circuits from occurring.
War Eagle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2017, 12:28 AM   #24
Senior Member
 
blhvet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Myrnam, Alberta
Trailer: 2005 Aliner, 17B due in April/17
Posts: 372
Ok, now I'm getting a little nervous...
I haven't replaced the fuse yet - I'll buy one tomorrow.

The only thing I've been using in the trailer is a small 1500 W space heater (running on AC power) since I got home. Nothing else except for the occasional light. No fridge. Don't have a microwave. No air conditioner. That's it.

We camped at Jasper on the way home from Chilliwack with no services and the DC system seemed to work fine. We used the furnace, water pump a bit, water heater (yes, Brian, it is a 2-way / forgot to mention that above), and ran the fridge on propane.

The previous night we had power and everything worked.

Float 5 - it's the honking big fuse in one battery box. (I have dual sixes.)
blhvet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2017, 06:50 AM   #25
Senior Member
 
C&G in FL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Tampa Bay Area, Florida
Trailer: 2015 Escape 5.0TA (Little Elsie) Extensively Personalized
Posts: 2,960
Quote:
Originally Posted by blhvet View Post
Ok, now I'm getting a little nervous...
I haven't replaced the fuse yet - I'll buy one tomorrow.

The only thing I've been using in the trailer is a small 1500 W space heater (running on AC power) since I got home. Nothing else except for the occasional light. No fridge. Don't have a microwave. No air conditioner. That's it.

We camped at Jasper on the way home from Chilliwack with no services and the DC system seemed to work fine. We used the furnace, water pump a bit, water heater (yes, Brian, it is a 2-way / forgot to mention that above), and ran the fridge on propane.

The previous night we had power and everything worked.

Float 5 - it's the honking big fuse in one battery box. (I have dual sixes.)
Brenda, when you replace the fuse, if it doesn't immediately blow (I doubt it will), check the function of your 12v system (all lights including the outside light) and the inverter. If everything is functioning properly, everything in the trailer can be considered OK; blowing the fuse was likely a freak occurrence. You should, however, as has been stated, be sure the tow vehicle is not running when you connect the umbilical, and make sure it is securely plugged in. Also, when plugging into shore power it is wise to turn off the breaker which control the outlet which you are plugging into first, then turn it back on after you are plugged in.
__________________
What a long strange trip it’s been!
C&G in FL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2017, 07:51 AM   #26
Senior Member
 
thoer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Galesville, Wisconsin
Trailer: 2017 21 "Blue II" & 2017 Highlander XLE (previously 2010 17B "Blue" & 2008 Tacoma)
Posts: 4,232
Quote:
Originally Posted by C&G in FL View Post
.... You should, however, as has been stated, be sure the tow vehicle is not running when you connect the umbilical, and make sure it is securely plugged in. Also, when plugging into shore power it is wise to turn off the breaker which control the outlet which you are plugging into first, then turn it back on after you are plugged in.
Good advice Carl. I also try to make sure my 7 pin cord is disconnected from the tow before I hook up to the shore power. For some reason, I twice had the experience of blowing out a fuse in the trailer by hooking up to shore power before disconnecting from the tow (tow engine not running.)
__________________
Eric (and Mary who is in no way responsible for anything stupid I post)

"Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance." George Bernard Shaw
thoer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2017, 09:55 PM   #27
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Surrey, British Columbia
Trailer: 2014 Escape 19'
Posts: 264
I am guessing that the fuse that blew is connected to the thick 4 gauge wire that goes to the inverter from your battery. (I can't check as my trailer is in storage). A possible cause of the blown fuse might be if you accidently had the 1500W heater running from the inverter, instead of shore power. Might have happened when your EMS got the error, if you started the heater to see if you had power, and the inverter was left on.

You should normally have the inverter off, except for when you know you want to use it.

I know the fuse in the WFCO converter is 40A, but the battery fuse would be larger to accommodate loads to the inverter.

Make sure that your heater and any other AC items are unplugged before replacing the fuse. You might want to check the inverter manuals and make sure the inverter is off. When the battery is connected, I check the remote panel, but your battery is not connected If it is the samlex inverter with the remote panel, I suggest switching the inverter off and removing the network cable to the remote.

If it hasn't been suggested, switch the battery disconnect to OFF before replacing the fuse, to eliminate any possibility of current draw from 12V loads in the trailer.

You mentioned that your Solar control panel is not working, it would be the only load when the battery fuse is replaced, as the battery disconnect does not disconnect the solar panel. I would check that the display is working before switching on the battery disconnect.

I suggest calling ETI so they can give you any advice they might have on how to replace the fuse.

Hope that you get everything working again soon.
__________________
Kirk & Shelley
2014 19'
Surrey, Beautiful BC, Canada
KirkB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2017, 10:26 PM   #28
Senior Member
 
Iowa Dave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Benton County, Iowa
Trailer: 2013 Escape 21 Classic Number 6, pulled by 2018 Toyota Highlander
Posts: 8,235
Plugging in

I was working on getting our 19 ready to go
camping today. Having read this thread and having blown a 40 amp fuse last year, I must of caught myself 5 or 6 times getting ready to plug into the AC circuit in the garage, plug the seven pin to the tow vehicle etc. where I had not made sure draws were off, tow vehicle was not running, and things were properly ready for the hookup. I hate to admit it but I've gotten a little sloppy on electrical best practices. I have resolved to slow down
( even slower) and pay more attention. This post helped me think about that and for that I'm grateful. Hope that when the new fuse
is installed there are no more problems. Take your time.
Dave
Iowa Dave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2017, 02:12 AM   #29
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Trailer: 1979 Boler B1700
Posts: 14,935
Quote:
Originally Posted by KirkB View Post
I am guessing that the fuse that blew is connected to the thick 4 gauge wire that goes to the inverter from your battery. (I can't check as my trailer is in storage). A possible cause of the blown fuse might be if you accidently had the 1500W heater running from the inverter, instead of shore power.
The 40-amp fuse can't be in the wire from the battery from the optional 1500 watt inverter, because 40 amps would not be nearly large enough. 40 amps at 12 volts would only be 480 watts; to let enough power through to run a 1500 watt inverter at full output, any fuse in the inverter wire needs to be rated higher than 125 amps.

The 40-amp fuse will presumably be in the wire from the battery to the WFCO Power Center, which contains the converter and the 12 volt DC power distribution fuse panel. Escape installs separate wires from the battery to the power center, and from the battery to the inverter, with appropriate wire gauges and fusing.
Brian B-P is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2017, 03:02 AM   #30
Senior Member
 
blhvet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Myrnam, Alberta
Trailer: 2005 Aliner, 17B due in April/17
Posts: 372
Picked up new fuses today. Hope to replace tomorrow IF IT EVER quits snowing.

Kirk, thanks for the indepth info. So, am I to take it that I can't run the 1500W heater off the solar and battery? It has 2 setting - the low one might be 750W. (I know I have a furnace - my "frugality" wants me to run electric if I can instead of propane".)
blhvet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2017, 06:25 AM   #31
Senior Member
 
Jim Bennett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Trailer: 2017 Escape 5.0 TA
Posts: 15,532
Quote:
Originally Posted by blhvet View Post
Picked up new fuses today. Hope to replace tomorrow IF IT EVER quits snowing.

Kirk, thanks for the indepth info. So, am I to take it that I can't run the 1500W heater off the solar and battery? It has 2 setting - the low one might be 750W. (I know I have a furnace - my "frugality" wants me to run electric if I can instead of propane".)
Remember Brenda, it is still a month until the May long weekend, and always potential for snow. I have seen snow on that weekend many times. It was weird here yesterday, we got about 6" of snow in our yard yet less than a mile away, nothing. Lots of fresh snow this morning too. Not the most fun, but think of all those in the southern US suffering under skin melting conditions. I will take the snow, thanks.

I hope all turns out good with your electrical issues. I have nothing to add to the good advise you have already received, other than to agree with a few who suggested to contact Escape if the problem persists.
__________________
2017 Escape 5.0 TA
2015 Ford F150 Lariat 3.5L EcoBoost
2009 Escape 19 (previous)
“Most folks are about as happy as they make up their minds to be.” — Abraham Lincoln
Jim Bennett is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2017, 07:15 AM   #32
Senior Member
 
ReagentGrade's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Houston, Texas
Trailer: '87 Bigfoot 20DLX 5er (sold) - 2017 Escape 5.0 TA: Sep-17
Posts: 523
Dumb question for smart people...

Quote:
Originally Posted by blhvet View Post
Kirk, thanks for the indepth info. So, am I to take it that I can't run the 1500W heater off the solar and battery? It has 2 setting - the low one might be 750W. (I know I have a furnace - my "frugality" wants me to run electric if I can instead of propane".)

Brenda,

The picture much worse than that!

You can't even use the electric heater at the 750 watt setting on solar. It's all about the math... 750 watts / 12V = 62.5 amps. If you run the heater continuously for 3 hours, you'll consume 62.5 x 3 = 187.6 amp hours (Ah).

Your 6V batteries are rated at 232 Ah, but if you run them below 50% you'll shorten their life. That means to should never use more than 116 Ah before recharging.

The calcs above have some assumptions:

1. It's cold enough for the heater to actually heat continuously. This is a reasonable assumption because if it's cold, 750 watts is not enough to warm the trailer.

2. The inverter is converting power from the battery at 100% efficiency. This is a poor assumption because your inverter is less than 100% efficient. Therefore you'll use even more power.

The inverter with the batteries you have is only intended to allow to to run your microwave for a few minutes or the hair dryer a few minutes etc. Nothing that consumes significant power for HOURS.

To run your electric heater all night long, you'd have to have thousands of dollars of lithium batteries and thousands of dollars of solar panels to recharge them. And you'd need a much bigger roof for the panels.

In fact, the the fan/blower in your PROPANE furnace is your biggest power hog. On a really cold night, the propane heater can tax your batteries. But nothing like an electric heater.

Rich
ReagentGrade is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2017, 07:43 AM   #33
Senior Member
 
ReagentGrade's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Houston, Texas
Trailer: '87 Bigfoot 20DLX 5er (sold) - 2017 Escape 5.0 TA: Sep-17
Posts: 523
Dumb question for smart people...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ReagentGrade View Post
In fact, the the fan/blower in your PROPANE furnace is your biggest power hog. On a really cold night, the propane heater can tax your batteries. But nothing like an electric heater.

Brenda,

Don't be discouraged. You have good batteries and the solar panel can (mostly) recharge them. Now math is much better...

I think the furnace uses about 6 amps when running (it might be less). If it's really cold and it must run continuously, that will be 6 amps x 8 hours = 64Ah. This is a lot, but if the furnace doesn't run too much during the day, the panel should be able to fully or almost fully recharge the batteries.

In full sun the panel can put out about 8 amps. At maximum output, it'll take 6 hours to recharge the batteries. (64 Ah / 8 amps = 6 hours). If it's cloudy it may not be able to fully recharge.

I may have over estimated the furnaces power usage. If it only uses 5 amps when running, the math looks even better. And the propane furnace puts out a lot more heat than the electric heater, even on 1,500 watt setting.

I know you want to save money, but propane isn't that expensive. It usually costs less than $12 to refill a tank. Two full tanks should last you at least a week. If you're using only propane for heating it means you don't have an electric hookup, so you're probably not paying a big campground fee.

Note: It's more trouble to get your tanks refilled than exchanged, but you get more for your money and you know what kind of tank you'll end up with. I bought special tanks with float gauges. If I exchange them I'll get tanks without gauges.

Rich
ReagentGrade is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2017, 08:38 AM   #34
Junior Member
 
redtaco99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Rockland, Ontario
Trailer: April 2016 Escape 19
Posts: 27
Send a message via Skype™ to redtaco99
The best advise is to call ETI on what to do for your specific trailer. Especially if you do not understand electricity and electrical theory, such as ohms law.

In my early 2016 Escape 19:
- the inverter is wired separately from the other trailer 12V circuits and has a 200Amp fuse right at the battery terminal
- the trailer's 12V system, is wired separately to the battery with another fuse holder (I suspect its a 40 amp fuse but I have not looked at it)

As a rule of thumb: I only run the electric kettle or the cube ceramic electric heater only when plugged into shore power. Why? They use a lot of energy and If you try an run it on the inverter you will deplete the battery to less than 50% very quickly.

As a rule of thumb, I try not to let my battery deplete to less than 50%. This is to ensure it lasts as many years as possible. I use the charge controller to monitor this. Its not super accurate but good enough.

Other trailers may be wired differently than mine, so its always best to double check your electrical trouble with ETI who would or should have specifics on how your trailer is wired.

If a 40 amp 12V fuse blew, well then something really overloaded badly, and you need expert advice from someone who understands how your trailer is wired and what has been plugged into the 12V system.

Jim
__________________
Jim
VA3KV
Rockland On
redtaco99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2017, 09:06 AM   #35
Senior Member
 
C&G in FL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Tampa Bay Area, Florida
Trailer: 2015 Escape 5.0TA (Little Elsie) Extensively Personalized
Posts: 2,960
People keep talking about not depleting the battery/batteries below 50%. For the uninitiated or "uneducated" it should be noted that this does not mean half of the batteries stated voltage, which would be approximately 6 volts, whether it is a single 12 volt battery or dual 6 v batteries in series. The magic number is 10.8 or 10.7 volts. Best battery practices would be to never allow the battery/batteries to discharge below 10.8 volts.
__________________
What a long strange trip it’s been!
C&G in FL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2017, 11:16 AM   #36
Senior Member
 
Marry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Ponoka, Alberta
Trailer: 2016 19 classic "outta sight", jeep rubicon unlimited
Posts: 1,645
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Bennett View Post
It was weird here yesterday, we got about 6" of snow in our yard yet less than a mile away, nothing. Lots of fresh snow this morning too.
Your poor rhubarb
__________________
"never lose hope, never lose faith"
Marry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2017, 11:48 AM   #37
Junior Member
 
redtaco99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Rockland, Ontario
Trailer: April 2016 Escape 19
Posts: 27
Send a message via Skype™ to redtaco99
Hi C&G in Florida, no I was talking to Escape owners who rely on either the charge controller or the combo battery monitor/tank monitor for their info on battery status. With the latter, if the battery goes below 2/3's which is approximately 66%, then you need to start thinking about conserving power in your battery system.

Jim
__________________
Jim
VA3KV
Rockland On
redtaco99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2017, 12:11 PM   #38
Senior Member
 
ReagentGrade's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Houston, Texas
Trailer: '87 Bigfoot 20DLX 5er (sold) - 2017 Escape 5.0 TA: Sep-17
Posts: 523
Quote:
Originally Posted by C&G in FL View Post
People keep talking about not depleting the battery/batteries below 50%. For the uninitiated or "uneducated" it should be noted that this does not mean half of the batteries stated voltage, which would be approximately 6 volts, whether it is a single 12 volt battery or dual 6 v batteries in series. The magic number is 10.8 or 10.7 volts. Best battery practices would be to never allow the battery/batteries to discharge below 10.8 volts.

I think the magic number is actually 12.1V at 50% usage. I believe 10.7V is almost completely discharged.
ReagentGrade is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2017, 12:42 PM   #39
Site Team
 
Donna D.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Portland, Oregon
Trailer: 2014 Escape 5.0 TA
Posts: 11,023
Does this help?
Attached Thumbnails
voltchart1.gif  
__________________
Donna D.
Ten Forward
2014 Escape 5.0TA
Donna D. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2017, 01:09 PM   #40
Senior Member
 
LDRay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Ceresco, Michigan
Trailer: 2015 escape 19
Posts: 134
I printed this off and put it on the inside cover of our vacation journal.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
LDRay is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by Escape Trailer Industries or any of its affiliates. This is an independent, unofficial site.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:21 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright 2023 Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.