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03-20-2017, 01:20 PM
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#21
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: North Van., British Columbia
Trailer: 2014 Escape 19, sold; 2019 Escape 21, Sept. 2019
Posts: 8,743
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Bennett
I would be very cautious with that, Dave. You know full well what it's intended use is, but I would take every precaution to make sure nobody else got hold of it and used it improperly.
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Gotta agree with you on that one.
I'm also not thrilled with the idea of folks using a 50 to 30 amp adapter if the 30 amp outlet isn't usable. That's an oversized breaker for an undersized cable. Chances are you couldn't hurt anything because the trailer breaker should still limit current use to 30 amps but using an overcapacity breaker still sends out the wrong message.
Ron
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03-20-2017, 01:51 PM
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#22
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: North Vancouver, British Columbia
Trailer: 2009 Escape 17B 2020 Toyota Highlander XLE
Posts: 17,136
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Trying to work this out.
In order to test the power at the post, I figure I need this adapter so I can plug in my household circuit tester. Anything wrong with this theory?
__________________
What happens to the hole when the cheese is gone?
- Bertolt Brecht
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03-20-2017, 02:06 PM
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#23
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: North Van., British Columbia
Trailer: 2014 Escape 19, sold; 2019 Escape 21, Sept. 2019
Posts: 8,743
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Nope, easier than using a meter if you're not familiar with the wiring protcol.
BTW, how's the rhubarb doing?
Ron
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03-20-2017, 02:22 PM
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#24
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: North Vancouver, British Columbia
Trailer: 2009 Escape 17B 2020 Toyota Highlander XLE
Posts: 17,136
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Coming along.
Got Chafer beetle too and raccoons are feasting.
__________________
What happens to the hole when the cheese is gone?
- Bertolt Brecht
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03-20-2017, 02:44 PM
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#25
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Opelika, Alabama
Trailer: 2012 19
Posts: 130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron in BC
Gotta agree with you on that one.
I'm also not thrilled with the idea of folks using a 50 to 30 amp adapter if the 30 amp outlet isn't usable. That's an oversized breaker for an undersized cable. Chances are you couldn't hurt anything because the trailer breaker should still limit current use to 30 amps but using an overcapacity breaker still sends out the wrong message.
Ron
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The problem would be it the short occured in the incoming wire before the breaker in the trailer.. Then you might have a glowing red power cable all the way to the 50 amp breaker. Odds are the 50 would trip, but then again.
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03-20-2017, 03:56 PM
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#26
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: North of Danbury, Wisconsin
Trailer: 2018 Escape 21C
Posts: 3,033
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron in BC
Gotta agree with you on that one.
I'm also not thrilled with the idea of folks using a 50 to 30 amp adapter if the 30 amp outlet isn't usable. That's an oversized breaker for an undersized cable. Chances are you couldn't hurt anything because the trailer breaker should still limit current use to 30 amps but using an overcapacity breaker still sends out the wrong message.
Ron
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When you plug in a 50 amp to 30 amp adaptor , then the 50 amp breaker in the pedestal provides short circuit protection and the 30 amp breaker in the trailer provides overcurrent protection for the cord. The NEC has what is called the 25 ft tap rule which allows you to connect to a higher amp feeder as long as the wire you connect has at least 1/3 the ampacity of the feeder's overcurrent device , the wire terminates in a properly sized overcurrent device and the run of wire is 25 ft or less.
A trailer is like a plug in appliance in your home. You plug your 1000 watt toaster which has an 18/2 cord into the 20 amp kitchen circuit and think nothing of it .
Ideally the 30 amp service cord from your trailer should be plugged into a 30 amp receptacle protected by a 30 amp overcurrent device but from an electrical safety prospective ,plugging into a 50 amp adaptor does not create a safety hazard.
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03-20-2017, 04:31 PM
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#27
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Ottawa, Ontario
Trailer: 2017 Escape 19 pulled by GMC Canyon Diesel.
Posts: 198
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Bennett
I carry that, along with a cheap sewer hose connector, for when we place the trailer in a nice spot that is too far from the service hookups. Rarely used, but nice when needed. When we travel with friends it is handy to have one set between us so one of us can reorient our RV to face the other.
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Hi Jim,
Can you explain the connector set-up please. Is it a Y or to connect two hoses in order to make it to the pipe? Makes it easier to shoot the sh** with your friends!
__________________
Jean-Pierre
Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness. Mark Twain
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03-20-2017, 04:45 PM
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#28
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Trailer: 2017 Escape 5.0 TA
Posts: 15,532
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JPSpins
Hi Jim,
Can you explain the connector set-up please. Is it a Y or to connect two hoses in order to make it to the pipe? Makes it easier to shoot the sh** with your friends!
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I blame my phone. But I got a good chuckle outta your reasoning behind what I might be thinking.
What I meant to say is I bring a cheap extra length of sewer hose to connect to the good one I normally use should I have to dump while a bit farther from the campsite connection that one hose would reach.
See, I do much better when typing with big words on my PC.
__________________
2017 Escape 5.0 TA
2015 Ford F150 Lariat 3.5L EcoBoost
2009 Escape 19 (previous)
“Most folks are about as happy as they make up their minds to be.” — Abraham Lincoln
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03-20-2017, 05:23 PM
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#29
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Ottawa, Ontario
Trailer: 2017 Escape 19 pulled by GMC Canyon Diesel.
Posts: 198
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Bennett
I blame my phone. But I got a good chuckle outta your reasoning behind what I might be thinking.
What I meant to say is I bring a cheap extra length of sewer hose to connect to the good one I normally use should I have to dump while a bit farther from the campsite connection that one hose would reach.
See, I do much better when typing with big words on my PC.
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Ha ha! I bought a less than cheap Rhino and next on my list is a connector because you never know who you will run into.
__________________
Jean-Pierre
Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness. Mark Twain
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03-20-2017, 05:23 PM
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#30
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: North Van., British Columbia
Trailer: 2014 Escape 19, sold; 2019 Escape 21, Sept. 2019
Posts: 8,743
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gbaglo
Coming along.
Got Chafer beetle too and raccoons are feasting.
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Ah man, once again Baglo jumps out in front in the rhubarb growing dept. I don't have any green leaves yet.
Ron
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03-20-2017, 05:27 PM
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#31
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: North Van., British Columbia
Trailer: 2014 Escape 19, sold; 2019 Escape 21, Sept. 2019
Posts: 8,743
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steve dunham
n the 50 amp breaker in the pedestal provides short circuit protection and the 30 amp breaker in the trailer provides overcurrent protection for the cord. The NEC has what is called the 25 ft tap rule which allows you to connect to a higher amp feeder as long as the wire you connect has at least 1/3 the ampacity of the feeder's overcurrent device , the wire terminates in a properly sized overcurrent device and the run of wire is 25 ft or less.
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Thanks for the clarification. I'm not sure what our rules are about that, I've never had to deal with the tap rule. It's just a philosophical issue with me. Not giving the idea that using oversized breakers or fuses is OK.
Ron
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03-20-2017, 06:02 PM
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#32
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Trailer: 2017 Escape 5.0 TA
Posts: 15,532
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron in BC
Ah man, once again Baglo jumps out in front in the rhubarb growing dept. I don't have any green leaves yet.
Ron
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Rumours abound that baglo incubates his rhubarb by sitting on it to speed up its development in order to make us, the ones that still have lots of snow on ours, feel envious.
__________________
2017 Escape 5.0 TA
2015 Ford F150 Lariat 3.5L EcoBoost
2009 Escape 19 (previous)
“Most folks are about as happy as they make up their minds to be.” — Abraham Lincoln
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03-20-2017, 06:18 PM
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#33
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: North of Danbury, Wisconsin
Trailer: 2018 Escape 21C
Posts: 3,033
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron in BC
Thanks for the clarification. I'm not sure what our rules are about that, I've never had to deal with the tap rule. It's just a philosophical issue with me. Not giving the idea that using oversized breakers or fuses is OK.
Ron
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A number #10 AWG copper wire ( size of conductors in trailer service cord ) can safely withstand a short circuit fault current of 4300 amps . 4300 amps is more than enough to cause a 50 amp breaker to trip or open . Again I agree that using an overcurrent device that is greater than the listed ampacity of a conductor is generally not a good idea but from a technical and not from a philosophical standpoint , plugging your 30 amp trailer cord into a 50 amp to 30 amp adaptor does not impose any greater risk.
The 50 amp to 30 amp commercially available adaptors are UL
listed and comply with the NEC at least the one I have is.
I point this out only to allay people's fear of using an adaptor or their concern that they are creating a safety hazard.
This is the wrong forum for discussing electrical theory or the NEC so I will end my comments at this point.
Best Wishes
Steve D
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03-20-2017, 06:27 PM
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#34
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Portland, Oregon
Trailer: 2017 Escape 21
Posts: 185
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Quote:
The 50 amp to 30 amp commercially available adaptors are UL
listed and comply with the NEC.
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I'm comfortable with that, Steve. Thanks!
Gary
__________________
Gary & Linda
2017 Escape 21 (April 04, 2017 )
2015 Nissan Pathfinder
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03-20-2017, 08:30 PM
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#35
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Ventura County, California
Trailer: 2015 Escape 17A
Posts: 2,344
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steve dunham
.....
This is the wrong forum for discussing electrical theory or the NEC so I will end my comments at this point.
Best Wishes
Steve D
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But Steve,
You're doing such a great job! It was a very clear explanation.
(I was waiting for a tangent into separately-derived systems ).
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03-22-2017, 09:20 PM
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#36
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Retired from Dallas & Full-Timing, Texas
Trailer: 2017 21' Escape as of 01/16/17
Posts: 1,312
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Quote:
Originally Posted by H46Driver
For those who want belts and suspenders, or just like carrying around gadgety stuff, I made a 30 to 30 amp plug that reverses polarity just in case I get a pedestal that is reversed and doesn't have 50 amp. I know, I know, just a bit over overkill!
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Dave,
Great idea! I have one that I made modeled after yours. You never know when you are going to need one. Thanks!
Red Dog
__________________
Fred M.
"Whoever said retirement was overrated...
...never had an Escape"
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03-26-2017, 09:35 PM
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#37
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Portland, Oregon
Trailer: 2017 Escape 21
Posts: 185
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So does reverse polarity on a 30 amp outlet happen often? And when it does, have you had a 50 amp outlet available?
Gary
__________________
Gary & Linda
2017 Escape 21 (April 04, 2017 )
2015 Nissan Pathfinder
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03-26-2017, 09:54 PM
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#38
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Tampa Bay Area, Florida
Trailer: 2015 Escape 5.0TA (Little Elsie) Extensively Personalized
Posts: 2,960
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garysd
So does reverse polarity on a 30 amp outlet happen often? And when it does, have you had a 50 amp outlet available?
Gary
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I, personally have never encountered a 30 amp reversed polarity situation. What I have seen, but only on a few occasions, is an undervoltage situation where a campground is not wired adequately to provide power to multiple units. In those cases, I generally run on battery and move on the next day.
__________________
What a long strange trip it’s been!
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03-26-2017, 10:21 PM
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#39
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: North Van., British Columbia
Trailer: 2014 Escape 19, sold; 2019 Escape 21, Sept. 2019
Posts: 8,743
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C&G in FL
I, personally have never encountered a 30 amp reversed polarity situation.
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I'd add "in campground wiring" Not saying it doesn't happen, perhaps in an older park where an unqualified person may have installed a new receptacle. Reverse polarity is most often encountered in what I call "homeowner wiring" Nowadays the situation seems to be, if you can buy it at Home Depot you can install it yourself, after all, those folks on a reality show made it look so easy. Maybe they missed the part about gold and silver terminals etc.
Ron
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03-27-2017, 06:47 AM
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#40
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Trailer: 2017 Escape 5.0 TA
Posts: 15,532
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron in BC
I'd add "in campground wiring" Not saying it doesn't happen, perhaps in an older park where an unqualified person may have installed a new receptacle. Reverse polarity is most often encountered in what I call "homeowner wiring" Nowadays the situation seems to be, if you can buy it at Home Depot you can install it yourself, after all, those folks on a reality show made it look so easy. Maybe they missed the part about gold and silver terminals etc.
Ron
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I find with all the folks I deal with, that when it comes to electricity, most everyone is too scared to go near it, even though a good basic understanding can lead to safe practices. Same with plumbing, they just don't want to have to deal with all the crap associated with it. As renovation carpenters we often have WAY more money into our tools, our knowledge is way more broad, yet a customer always sees us as doing a job they could easily do if they applied themselves, yet that of an electrician or plumber way out of their realm, and they are willing to pay the plumber and electrician near $100/hour and us barely over half that.
On the note of the potential for the hot and neutral to be reversed at a campground, I sure would not be worrying about it, especially with an EMS. Like Carl I have never heard first hand of anyone every seeing it.
__________________
2017 Escape 5.0 TA
2015 Ford F150 Lariat 3.5L EcoBoost
2009 Escape 19 (previous)
“Most folks are about as happy as they make up their minds to be.” — Abraham Lincoln
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