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Old 05-16-2016, 06:21 PM   #11
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Not that I've heard of. I certainly didn't get one.
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Old 05-16-2016, 06:36 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Santiago View Post
By the way, will Escape include a whole trailer wiring diagram when we pick up our trailer later this year ? Part of the factory documentation ?
This has been discussed in at least two other threads:

Wiring
electrical schematic

The short answer is "no" for several legitimate (in my opinion) reasons.
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Old 05-16-2016, 08:15 PM   #13
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I have an electrical panel question.
...
It also houses the converter as well as the charger.
Just for clarification: the converter is the charger; there are not two separate devices.

You should be able to remove the converter/charger module entirely - leaving the distribution panel and cabinet intact - if you don't want to haul around the deadweight. Personally, I would just put a switch in the supply circuit and leave it in place: that way, it would be available as a backup to your preferred charger, and if the plan changes it could be used without any additional work. If there is a spare circuit breaker slot, the converter/charger supply could be moved to a separate breaker, which could be left off to disable the converter/charger.
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Old 05-16-2016, 09:12 PM   #14
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Just for clarification: the converter is the charger; there are not two separate devices..
Brian, you mean that the when on shore power the converter is supplying house load AND what's left of its capacity is used to charge the batteries, assuming they are in need of charge.
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Old 05-16-2016, 10:02 PM   #15
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Brian, you mean that the when on shore power the converter is supplying house load AND what's left of its capacity is used to charge the batteries, assuming they are in need of charge.
Yes.
The converter/charger runs at the voltage it thinks is needed for battery charging, not the constant (and usually lower) voltage which would be ideal for powering all of the "12 volt" DC stuff in the trailer (the house loads). It has 55 amps output capacity; when you're using a few amps for other things, there's still lots of capacity left to charge the battery. This way the battery is never disconnected from the house loads when in use (although there is a battery disconnect switch for storage).
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Old 05-16-2016, 10:22 PM   #16
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Yes.
The converter/charger runs at the voltage it thinks is needed for battery charging, not the constant (and usually lower) voltage which would be ideal for powering all of the "12 volt" DC stuff in the trailer (the house loads). It has 55 amps output capacity; when you're using a few amps for other things, there's still lots of capacity left to charge the battery. This way the battery is never disconnected from the house loads when in use (although there is a battery disconnect switch for storage).
Well I know most all individual converters and some inverters double up as a charger but I thought a panel assembly would have a constant dc supply for house needs (converter) and a separate charger with fluctuating voltages that will produce higher voltages when charging. I wonder if the occasional higher voltage stage supplied to the house would harm less robust 12vdc items. My inverter will not have charging and now I see that even when in a panel the converter is still acting like a charger. When I disconnect the Escape's converter within the panel using just the batteries and my 10 year old Xantrax TrueCharge 40 charger that will be the sole house supply while on shore power. I wonder if I can automatically isolate the converter to supply the house and not charge when shore power is sensed?
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Old 05-16-2016, 11:18 PM   #17
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I think I have my solution Brian, I can keep the converter intact and it will act as a dc supply to the house but not touch my battery banks when 120 vac power is applied from the power bush ( as Glenn calls it ).

Using a $15 elctromechanical relay with 120vac coil, SPDT 40 amp DC contacts.

That will divert DC to the house from either the converter when 120vac is present or the batteries when no 120vac is available. While tapped to onshore power the TrueCharge charger will still charge the batteries at full speed unbeknownst on the house side due to the relay acting as a DC traffic cop. Even though this relay is rated at 1million cycles I will carry a spare. Does that make sense ?
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Old 05-17-2016, 01:23 AM   #18
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Well I know most all individual converters and some inverters double up as a charger but I thought a panel assembly would have a constant dc supply for house needs (converter) and a separate charger with fluctuating voltages that will produce higher voltages when charging.
I haven't seen that yet, although high-priced RVs could have anything. All of the recent integrated distribution panels with converters that I've heard of in small trailers have a single converter which is also used as the charger. My 2002 large fifth-wheel trailer came with a separate constant-voltage converter and the battery was always connected, so that converter was the charger. My 2010 motorhome has the same arrangement, but with a modern multi-stage converter/charger.

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I wonder if the occasional higher voltage stage supplied to the house would harm less robust 12vdc items.
Although I haven't seen anything damaged, the higher voltage put out by the Progressive Dynamics converter/charger in my motorhome is certainly too high for the furnace: the fan runs too loudly and just doesn't sound right. Lights visibly brighten.

I have considered a voltage regulator, to provide constant voltage to the house loads, but not seriously pursued it yet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Santiago View Post
I wonder if I can automatically isolate the converter to supply the house and not charge when shore power is sensed?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Santiago View Post
I think I have my solution Brian, I can keep the converter intact and it will act as a dc supply to the house but not touch my battery banks when 120 vac power is applied from the power bush ( as Glenn calls it ).

Using a $15 elctromechanical relay with 120vac coil, SPDT 40 amp DC contacts.

That will divert DC to the house from either the converter when 120vac is present or the batteries when no 120vac is available. While tapped to onshore power the TrueCharge charger will still charge the batteries at full speed unbeknownst on the house side due to the relay acting as a DC traffic cop. Even though this relay is rated at 1million cycles I will carry a spare. Does that make sense ?
You only really need SPST, to disconnect the battery from the house loads when on AC power; the converter can always be connected to the distribution panel and the charger can always be connected to the battery, since neither does anything when there is no AC power. This is how my 1979 Boler is set up. An AC powered relay (integrated with the converter and distribution panel) disconnects the battery from the DC distribution panel, so the converter never connects to the battery. There is no charger in this Boler; the charger was an optional extra component, which just connected converter output to the battery until the battery was sufficiently charged. Santiago, your setup would use a relay in a similar way, but have a superior separate charger.

In this arrangement, you would need to decide which side of the relay (converter/panel or battery) connect the output of any solar charger, determining where solar output would go when on shore power.

The stock converter is a multi-stage charger. With no battery connected, it won't "know" that and - depending of what loads are in use - may not immediately go into the float mode that you would want.
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Old 05-17-2016, 01:36 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian B-P View Post
I haven't seen that yet, although high-priced RVs could have anything. All of the recent integrated distribution panels with converters that I've heard of in small trailers have a single converter which is also used as the charger. My 2002 large fifth-wheel trailer came with a separate constant-voltage converter and the battery was always connected, so that converter was the charger. My 2010 motorhome has the same arrangement, but with a modern multi-stage converter/charger.

I have considered a voltage regulator, to provide constant voltage to the house loads, but not seriously pursued it yet.

You only really need SPST, to disconnect the battery from the house loads when on AC power; the converter can always be connected to the distribution panel and the charger can always be connected to the battery, since neither does anything when there is no AC power. This is how my 1979 Boler is set up. An AC powered relay (integrated with the converter and distribution panel) disconnects the battery from the DC distribution panel, so the converter never connects to the battery. There is no charger in this Boler; the charger was an optional extra component, which just connected converter output to the battery until the battery was sufficiently charged. Santiago, your setup would use a relay in a similar way, but have a superior separate charger.

In this arrangement, you would need to decide which side of the relay (converter/panel or battery) connect the output of any solar charger, determining where solar output would go when on shore power.
.
Wow, it sounds like this will work as you have done so yourself. The SPDT was to isolate the converted when no AC was available and the batteries would supply the house. I see your point of not needing it but I am paranoid and rather not let the batteries mingle with the converter. I do not plan on solar at this stage so will worry about that much later on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian B-P View Post
Although I haven't seen anything damaged, the higher voltage put out by the Progressive Dynamics converter/charger in my motorhome is certainly too high for the furnace: the fan runs too loudly and just doesn't sound right. Lights visibly brighten..
Brian, I suspect the lights brighten because of the high voltages cause by the converter's charger thinking its going to charge the batteries. Incandescent bulbs won't last long in that mode. Another reason for not having DC power supply and charger all in one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian B-P View Post
The stock converter is a multi-stage charger. With no battery connected, it won't "know" that and - depending of what loads are in use - may not immediately go into the float mode that you would want.
How the converter would behave in he absence of a battery bank, I wondered about that as well. You say i will go into float mode? Why if house load drops voltage? Only way to really tell is to temporarily isolate battery and see what the converted will do. This is when I wish the converter was not so smart with three stages, I want the old retarded ones back!

Brian, you have given me hope of having separate dedicated components based on your fairly vast RV experiences. THANK YOU.
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Old 05-17-2016, 11:12 AM   #20
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Back to the original question. I have noticed lately that when the power first comes on, the fan runs - until I remember to switch the refrigerator from 12vdc to 120vac. (I run the refrigerator on 12vdc while traveling, and that works great for me.) Then the fan stops. I suspect that there is some 12vdc load causing the fan to run.
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