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Old 05-17-2016, 12:50 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by bdornbush View Post
Back to the original question. I have noticed lately that when the power first comes on, the fan runs - until I remember to switch the refrigerator from 12vdc to 120vac. (I run the refrigerator on 12vdc while traveling, and that works great for me.) Then the fan stops. I suspect that there is some 12vdc load causing the fan to run.
This our experience, exactly.....
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Old 05-17-2016, 05:14 PM   #22
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Brian, I suspect the lights brighten because of the high voltages cause by the converter's charger thinking its going to charge the batteries. Incandescent bulbs won't last long in that mode. Another reason for not having DC power supply and charger all in one..
I suspect it may only be equalization mode which is really noticeable. Even the LEDs brighten, but I'm not worried about them. This is one reason for wanting separate charging; the other is just doing a better-controlled job of charging.


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How the converter would behave in he absence of a battery bank, I wondered about that as well. You say i will go into float mode? Why if house load drops voltage? Only way to really tell is to temporarily isolate battery and see what the converted will do. This is when I wish the converter was not so smart with three stages, I want the old retarded ones back!
Escape uses the WFCO 9855:
http://wfcoelectronics.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/9-3-Operation-Manual.pdf

The manual says that with no battery and no load, it should go to its normal operation state, which is absorption mode; apparently operation without a battery is okay. It should switch between float (13.2V) and absorption (13.6V) modes, depending on load, and it seems to me that either of these would be okay; enough load to cause more than trickle-charging current switches it to absorption. The mode to avoid is bulk mode (up to 14.4V), which can last for up to four hours. Since the charger can only determine when to go into bulk mode based on current or inability to maintain target voltage, presumably changing loads with no battery connected could trigger bulk mode (unless the highest load is not enough to trigger it). Fortunately in this case, this converter/charger doesn't have an equalization mode, so it will never put out a really high charging voltage.

Real-world experience with the WFCO and no battery would be helpful. I think most Escape owners who have installed a different charger disable the WFCO, rather than using it as a non-charging converter, so there may be little of this experience.
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Old 05-17-2016, 05:55 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Brian B-P View Post
I suspect it may only be equalization mode which is really noticeable. Even the LEDs brighten, but I'm not worried about them. This is one reason for wanting separate charging; the other is just doing a better-controlled job of charging.



Escape uses the WFCO 9855:
http://wfcoelectronics.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/9-3-Operation-Manual.pdf

The manual says that with no battery and no load, it should go to its normal operation state, which is absorption mode; apparently operation without a battery is okay. It should switch between float (13.2V) and absorption (13.6V) modes, depending on load, and it seems to me that either of these would be okay; enough load to cause more than trickle-charging current switches it to absorption. The mode to avoid is bulk mode (up to 14.4V), which can last for up to four hours. Since the charger can only determine when to go into bulk mode based on current or inability to maintain target voltage, presumably changing loads with no battery connected could trigger bulk mode (unless the highest load is not enough to trigger it). Fortunately in this case, this converter/charger doesn't have an equalization mode, so it will never put out a really high charging voltage.

Real-world experience with the WFCO and no battery would be helpful. I think most Escape owners who have installed a different charger disable the WFCO, rather than using it as a non-charging converter, so there may be little of this experience.
Oh man Brian, now I am a little hesitant to keep the converter as it was given a charging brain that is unpredictable due to the dynamics of the house load. Not comfortable with this, yet will test it before I toss the built in converter out. If it comes to that based on testing will look for a simple DC power supply. All this time I though the power panel had a simple converter, glad I brought it up and you know this subject so well. Thank you.
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Old 05-17-2016, 05:59 PM   #24
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Well I know most all individual converters and some inverters double up as a charger but I thought a panel assembly would have a constant dc supply for house needs (converter) and a separate charger with fluctuating voltages that will produce higher voltages when charging.
When contemplating solar controllers I had checked with Dometic/Atwood and Suburban about the controllers 15.6v output possibly damaging the trailers original equipment. Both manufacturers told me there would be no problem with those levels.

You could do the same but you'll need to come up with a list of model numbers. Of course this only covers what the trailer comes with, not what you put in it.
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Old 05-26-2016, 12:40 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Brian B-P View Post
The manual says that with no battery and no load, it should go to its normal operation state, which is absorption mode; apparently operation without a battery is okay. It should switch between float (13.2V) and absorption (13.6V) modes, depending on load, and it seems to me that either of these would be okay; enough load to cause more than trickle-charging current switches it to absorption. The mode to avoid is bulk mode (up to 14.4V), which can last for up to four hours. Since the charger can only determine when to go into bulk mode based on current or inability to maintain target voltage, presumably changing loads with no battery connected could trigger bulk mode (unless the highest load is not enough to trigger it). Fortunately in this case, this converter/charger doesn't have an equalization mode, so it will never put out a really high charging voltage.

Real-world experience with the WFCO and no battery would be helpful. I think most Escape owners who have installed a different charger disable the WFCO, rather than using it as a non-charging converter, so there may be little of this experience.
Brian, I talked to WFCO on what happens when you prevent the converter's charger from "seeing" the batteries via isolation relay. He told me the WFCO is programmed to operate at a constant 13.6vdc when it does not see a battery.

This is great news for me as I don't need a separate 12vdc power supply that for equal current capacity, 55 amps, costs $375 from Power Stream. That is a very nice power supply by the way but the WFCO is free and in place.

My electric storage design will depend on very fast charging. The standard converter won't work.
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Old 08-16-2016, 02:14 PM   #26
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Speaking of fuses.....does the fuse box have a fuse puller in it as many do? Which fuse powers the fan vent in the bathroom on a 2015 21' ? It isn't marked on the inside panel. Thank you!
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Old 08-16-2016, 04:28 PM   #27
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Speaking of fuses.....does the fuse box have a fuse puller in it as many do? Which fuse powers the fan vent in the bathroom on a 2015 21' ? It isn't marked on the inside panel. Thank you!
On my 2015 19' there is nothing marked as to which fuse is for the bathroom fan vent. There is no fuse puller as the auto type blade fuses are supposed to be ones you can grasp and pull out. However, the clearances are very close and I could only grab the bottom fuse. I'll use a pair of needle nose pliers if I need to pull one. There is an LED that lights if a fuse is blown so you can tell which fuse needs to be replaced.
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