Our solar panel blew off!!

[Greg A]

Appreciate all the comments on this thread. Our build sheet is due Sept 1 and we were originally going to just do the solar pre-wire, but we decided to get the factory solar option now that it is bolt through. We hadn't thought about the headliner issues to add a panel sometime down the road. One decision down.

[FMLNM]

Originally Posted by Greg A

Appreciate all the comments on this thread. Our build sheet is due Sept 1 and we were originally going to just do the solar pre-wire, but we decided to get the factory solar option now that it is bolt through. We hadn't thought about the headliner issues to add a panel sometime down the road. One decision down.

Glad to know that our misfortune helped resolve some indecision for others. Quite amazing really that this whole thing started June 8th and barely 2 months later we already have had a significant exchange of thoughts and ideas resulting in a number of solutions...not to mention a swift response by ETI.

[Jubal]

Originally Posted by rbryan4

I'm liking the return to rationality here. Nobody does everything perfect, but all in all, Escape has been one of the best companies I've ever dealt with.

Yes, well, dealing with the electrical problems that were a result of assembly, the 4.3 frig, and the solar panels has been a bit too much as of late. To many do-it yourself projects taxing my limitations, patience,and attitude.

[Zardoz]

Do solar panels need to be cooled? I know that efficiency is lowered in extreme heat, but was wondering if a skirt around the panel (side of panel to roof) would keep the wind out from under the panel thereby eliminating pressure that might cause it to blow off?

[Ron in BC]

While it's true that heat reduces efficiency I don't think that there's a practical way of cooling them.

I think that for panels that are't mechanically attached a skirt could help reduce the chance of separation. But in the case of adhesive failure it might only delay the inevitable. With mechanical attachment I wouldn't bother with a deflector. The tensile strength of one Grade 8 1/4" bolt is something like 4900lbs.

Ron

[Patandlinda]

Originally Posted by Ron in BC

While it's true that heat reduces efficiency I don't think that there's a practical way of cooling them.

I think that for panels that are't mechanically attached a skirt could help reduce the chance of separation. But in the case of adhesive failure it might only delay the inevitable. With mechanical attachment I wouldn't bother with a deflector. The tensile strength of one Grade 8 1/4" bolt is something like 4900lbs.

Ron

following this thread and have a few questions. Shouldn't there be in your opinion a larger backing plate, it has been said a roof of 1/8 thickness, so with the wind stress pulling up on those panels not to widen holes or eventually pull through ? I respect your opinion . Pat

[tractors1]

A panel will work at reduced efficiency without backside cooling, but even a small gap (1/8th inch) is enough for convection to work for cooling the backside. The direct-attach flexible panels are quite a bit less efficient, but they do still work.

[Jubal]

Originally Posted by Patandlinda

following this thread and have a few questions. Shouldn't there be in your opinion a larger backing plate, it has been said a roof of 1/8 thickness, so with the wind stress pulling up on those panels not to widen holes or eventually pull through ? I respect your opinion . Pat

There is an adequate backing plate used for mounting the 150/160 W panels bolting thru and into the cabinets, not so for the bracket mounting fix for the 95 W panels. While we would need a wind tunnel and a smoke source to prove it, I do not believe wind uplift stress has caused the panel mounting failure. Evidence has been shown that poor surface prep and seperation of the epoxy from the aluminum box tubing most probably has resulted in panel mounting failure within a given manufacture time period. It is so easy to speculate and to try to find a fix for a problem that may not exist.

[Patandlinda]

Originally Posted by Jubal

There is an adequate backing plate used for mounting the 150/160 W panels bolting thru and into the cabinets, not so for the bracket mounting fix for the 95 W panels. While we would need a wind tunnel and a smoke source to prove it, I do not believe wind uplift stress has caused the panel mounting failure. Evidence has been shown that poor surface prep and seperation of the epoxy from the aluminum box tubing most probably has resulted in panel mounting failure within a given manufacture time period. It is so easy to speculate and to try to find a fix for a problem that may not exist.

The fix I see is a bolt with a washer . What is the backing plate for 150/160 ? Especially if installing after the build ? Pat

[Patandlinda]

Originally Posted by Patandlinda

The fix I see is a bolt with a washer . What is the backing plate for 150/160 ? Especially if installing after the build ? Pat

Also if it is wood, stress will widen that in my experience . Pat

[Ron in BC]

Originally Posted by Patandlinda

Shouldn't there be in your opinion a larger backing plate, it has been said a roof of 1/8 thickness, so with the wind stress pulling up on those panels not to widen holes or eventually pull through ? Pat

One variable is, beside flexing due to thinness, is proximity to adjacent structure that gives addition rigidity. In the Escape there is less flexing due both to the cross-section shape ( the lengthwise ridge) that reduces flexing as well as the interior cabinet supports, tabbed to the shell, that also reduce potential flexing. It's the flexing that can cause stress cracks. If the bolts are tight I don't believe that pulling through is likely.


Which is the long winded way of saying I'd be comfortable with fender washers in that situation. I often, in other situations just take a piece of aluminum, a little larger then a fender washer and make a backing block. A larger backing block is sort of like a belt and braces approach, one I often take.

Ron

[Patandlinda]

Originally Posted by Ron in BC

One variable is, beside flexing due to thinness, is proximity to adjacent structure that gives addition rigidity. In the Escape there is less flexing due both to the cross-section shape ( the lengthwise ridge) that reduces flexing as well as the interior cabinet supports, tabbed to the shell, that also reduce potential flexing. It's the flexing that can cause stress cracks. If the bolts are tight I don't believe that pulling through is likely.


Which is the long winded way of saying I'd be comfortable with fender washers in that situation. I often, in other situations just take a piece of aluminum, a little larger then a fender washer and make a backing block. A larger backing block is sort of like a belt and braces approach, one I often take.

Ron

Thanks Ron for explanation . As you can see still going back and forth about this . If I was to install like idea of aluminum backing plates , a little larger then fender washer . Pat

[Ron in BC]

Can't go wrong with a backing plate and if the there are two bolts fairly close to each other then one backing plate can be used for both bolts and that make the installation just about bomb proof.

Ron

[Patandlinda]

Originally Posted by Ron in BC

Can't go wrong with a backing plate and if the there are two bolts fairly close to each other then one backing plate can be used for both bolts and that make the installation just about bomb proof.

Ron

What would you seal with on top of holding bracket plates ? Also on bottom of brackets ? You said grade 8 bolts ? I want to just use stainless brackets that usually come with panels or you can get ? I was hoping to not use rails just the 4 brackets ? Pat

[Ron in BC]

I have a whole shelf of assorted sealants, adhesives and caulks but in this case I'd probably use a polyurathane one by Sika. Not because there aren't many others that will do the job but because I've used it a lot and it works well. Heck, I've even, Donna stop reading, used silicone. I believe that it gets a bit of a bad rap and that it does have its' uses.

I don't really like the smear sealant all over the exterior of the fastener. Looks awful to me but it does add another level of security. I sometimes use an EPDM washer under the head if I'm concerned with potential water leaks. But if there's a healthy layer of sealant in place leakage isn't usually an issue.

I just tossed out a Grade 8 bolt as an example. Stainless bolts have different strength ratings but a s/s 1/4" bolt would still likely have about 2300 lb. tensile strength. I routinely use s/s for everything except for some specialized applications.

Ron

[Patandlinda]

Originally Posted by Ron in BC

I have a whole shelf of assorted sealants, adhesives and caulks but in this case I'd probably use a polyurathane one by Sika. Not because there aren't many others that will do the job but because I've used it a lot and it works well. Heck, I've even, Donna stop reading, used silicone. I believe that it gets a bit of a bad rap and that it does have its' uses.

I don't really like the smear sealant all over the exterior of the fastener. Looks awful to me but it does add another level of security. I sometimes use an EPDM washer under the head if I'm concerned with potential water leaks. But if there's a healthy layer of sealant in place leakage isn't usually an issue.

I just tossed out a Grade 8 bolt as an example. Stainless bolts have different strength ratings but a s/s 1/4" bolt would still likely have about 2300 lb. tensile strength. I routinely use s/s for everything except for some specialized applications.

Ron

Ok Ron . Always love to use stainless for applications like this . Love the idea of EPDM underneath the bracket on roof . That will seal alone the hole once bolt is tightened up . Then sealant around edge of bracket and bolt heads . Have used Sika before but wouldn't it be better for sealant to be flexible in this case ? Getting this together , maybe by the time I purchase the panel in same size will be higher in Watts . Pat

[Vermilye]

Here is a photo of the cable tie down system Escape provided for 17's with the 95 watt panel. They provide an interesting blind rival that is seated by hammering in a pin, however because of the length of the cables, in most of the locations the fiberglass shell was too thick to use the provided rivet - I had to use pop rivets. They are positioned so that the rivet is in a void area of the curved section of the roof & does not show on the inside.

[Klem]

Is the purpose to decrease the chance of the original mount failing? And/or keep the loose panel from flying off? Looks to flimsy to do either. A pop rivet through fiberglass with no backing washer will come out quite easily?

[cpaharley2008]

Well my kit arrived today, with 4 aluminum brackets, 4 self tapping metal screws to attach to the panel and 4 thru the hull nuts/bolts with caps. I asked what the % was and was told 3/500 came off. One was done as a retrofit and 2 were original installs. The picture sent shows a screw head cover inside on the ceiling, going to have to think about this.

[tractors1]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

Well my kit arrived today, with 4 aluminum brackets, 4 self tapping metal screws to attach to the panel and 4 thru the hull nuts/bolts with caps. I asked what the % was and was told 3/500 came off. One was done as a retrofit and 2 were original installs. The picture sent shows a screw head cover inside on the ceiling, going to have to think about this.

ETI sent me a note that the issue was crosswinds and that no 21 had lost a panel. I've put on front airfoils to deflect the slipstream over the panel, but that wouldn't help a lot with crosswinds. I'll probably put the kit on, but not use their screws. I would bolt that sucker with locknuts on the panel and a larger washer over the bolt inside the cabinet; probably capped off with a plastic topper for both looks and insulation of the bolt head.