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06-02-2015, 11:53 PM
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#41
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Site Team
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Canyon Lake, Texas
Trailer: 2015 19 "Past Tents", 2021 F150 Lariat 2.7L EB
Posts: 10,222
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FMLNM
We don't know what the setup time might have been. The previous owners had brought it to eti for routine maintenance and then decided to buy a new one. We bought it sight unseen from NM. We asked Reace to add a few things..including solar...and we picked it up a month or so later...
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Difficult to tell from the photos exactly what failed. Epoxy sticks well on gel coat as long as you follow some general rules:
The ratio of resin to hardener must be correct. Like spot on correct.
The resin must be properly mixed.
The curing time and temperature need to be right. If its cooler, it can take DAYS to cure certain epoxies. I would NOT tow a vehicle that had a solar panel epoxied on in the last day. Let it cure completely.
As epoxy cures, it can develop amine blush on the top layer of epoxy that can inhibit curing and reduce the bond too. Warm water and a scuff pad or scotch-brite will remove the amine if it develops.
The gel coat should be sanded/scuffed thoroughly to help the bond. Not shiny where the joint is.
The area where the epoxy is to be applied needs to be SUPER clean and free of any waxes, polymers or coatings. Wipe down with acetone works.
I have also encountered a "bad batch" of epoxy a couple times. Either the hardener would not cure the resin, or the resin cured improperly.
I am not saying these steps were not followed. I have no idea how Escape epoxies the rails. But I am saying that when I have done it this way, the joint always holds up, and I've bonded several dissimilar materials to each other this way. Then again, if the gelcoat let go from the fiberglass, a well prepped surface and a good cure may not have prevented it.
__________________
"You can't buy happiness, but you can buy an RV. And that is pretty close."
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06-03-2015, 12:22 AM
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#42
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Ventura County, California
Trailer: 2013 19 Escape
Posts: 7,204
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Bennett
I am thinking that maybe removing the gelcoat in the area to be bonded might help, with the resin adhering to the resin, but really, the resin should bond to the gelcoat quite good.
Interesting to hear Reace's take.
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That is what I was thinking too . If that was epoxy and removed the gel coat and that is why it failed . Removing gel coat would bond better but if for some reason it failed that is a lot of roof damage . We know going down the road air going under panel is putting a lot of strain I would think on that panel . Pat
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06-03-2015, 12:26 AM
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#43
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Ventura County, California
Trailer: 2013 19 Escape
Posts: 7,204
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I also saw somewhere epoxy needed 24 hours to cure before use .I was a little confused Escape only needed 3-4 hours for job . Pat
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06-03-2015, 12:29 AM
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#44
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Trailer: 2017 Escape 5.0 TA
Posts: 15,532
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patandlinda
I also saw somewhere epoxy needed 24 hours to cure before use .I was a little confused Escape only needed 3-4 hours for job . Pat
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Depending on the epoxy used it can be hours to days for curing. I imagine they use a polyester resin, as opposed to epoxy resin, as that is what is used for fibreglassing the shell. Though not positive.
__________________
2017 Escape 5.0 TA
2015 Ford F150 Lariat 3.5L EcoBoost
2009 Escape 19 (previous)
“Most folks are about as happy as they make up their minds to be.” — Abraham Lincoln
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06-03-2015, 12:38 AM
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#45
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Ventura County, California
Trailer: 2013 19 Escape
Posts: 7,204
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Bennett
Depending on the epoxy used it can be hours to days for curing. I imagine they use a polyester resin, as opposed to epoxy resin, as that is what is used for fibreglassing the shell. Though not positive.
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I guess we just need to get answers from Escape and I am sure Escape will take care of this and put our minds at ease . Pat
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06-04-2015, 09:25 AM
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#46
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Kelowna, British Columbia
Trailer: 2008 Escape 17b
Posts: 1,868
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I'm having a hard time trying to figure out how the solar panel blew off. I realize that at highway speeds there must be an updraft force of some measure on an elevated solar panel but wouldn't the Max fan and various roof vents diffuse this force?
I wonder if some sort of fairing on the lead edge might eliminate this updraft?
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06-04-2015, 10:17 AM
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#47
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico
Trailer: none
Posts: 737
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At the time we were driving through a nasty thunderstorm on the open plains of eastern Colorado. Lots of crosswinds. The good news is that the trailer towed well in those winds.
__________________
Fran & Dave Albuquerque, NM
2013 to 2022 had a 2008 Escape 5.0 Classic
2011 Frontier Crew Cab Short Bed Pro4x
Sold both 7/22
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06-04-2015, 10:20 AM
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#48
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico
Trailer: none
Posts: 737
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Been playing phone tag with Reace as we have been driving up to South Dakota. Now that we are here and will stay put for several days it should be easier. We've emailed photos to him
__________________
Fran & Dave Albuquerque, NM
2013 to 2022 had a 2008 Escape 5.0 Classic
2011 Frontier Crew Cab Short Bed Pro4x
Sold both 7/22
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06-04-2015, 07:52 PM
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#49
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico
Trailer: none
Posts: 737
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Finally caught up with Reace today...our being in an area with sporadic phone access delayed us connecting. Reace looked at the photos we emailed to him and said that indeed some of the gel coat tore off. So, the epoxy did not fail...we just had really bad wind at just the right angle, etc.
He said we are the third case. He also said he had his fridge vent tear off in Texas...
Once we get back home we will contact him and he will ship us a new panel and some gel coat. Since we are so far away we will need to take care of getting it installed locally. Seems fair to us. The panel had been on for 2 years and it WAS a fierce windstorm and the epoxy did not fail....
As for reinstalling, Reace said that at least one of the other two cases ended up bolting through the shell when they reinstalled. We may go with epoxy plus bolting...we'll talk to a local shop and check it out. Not sure how they will remove the remaining epoxy on the roof...or if they even need to...
Reace also said we should not have plugged the two ends of the cords together ...probably caused the 30 amp breaker that they install between the panel and the battery to flip. So we have disconnected the ends. Everything else is still working fine in the trailer. We'll have to check out the breaker and let the installer know to check it.
So that's where we stand till we get home and find a fiberglass repair shop...
__________________
Fran & Dave Albuquerque, NM
2013 to 2022 had a 2008 Escape 5.0 Classic
2011 Frontier Crew Cab Short Bed Pro4x
Sold both 7/22
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06-04-2015, 09:24 PM
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#50
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Olathe, Kansas
Trailer: 2015 21ft Escape "Spirit of the Plains", 2014 GMC Sierra with max tow package
Posts: 1,100
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I hope I'm not jumping the gun on this nor do I want to offend the fine folks at ETI but I think with our build to start fairly soon, I am going to ask them if they would put in extra reinforcing strips in the roof and bolt the panel to the roof. I had assumed that was the way they were mounted anyway. We run the great plains a lot, especially Interstates 70, 80, and 90 and the winds can really blow out there let alone getting into a squall. I have seen empty tractor trailers get blown over on their side. I would be more than willing to pay extra for this and it would give great peace of mind. Plus can you imagine the liability involved if the panel went through someones windshield? I will run this by ETI next week and see what they say. And that's why our trailer is being named "Spirit of the Plains" Loren
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06-04-2015, 09:48 PM
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#51
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Denison, Texas
Trailer: 2015 21'; 2011 19' sold; 4Runner; ph ninezero3 327-27ninefour
Posts: 5,136
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Dave, does it look as if any fiberglass came off with the gel coat? No doubt they will be glad to bolt it for anyone who wants that.
__________________
Cathy. Floating Cloud
"Live in the sunshine, swim the sea, drink the wild air.... "
Emerson
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06-05-2015, 08:30 AM
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#52
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Trailer: ESCAPE #3 COMING - 19 FT
Posts: 277
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loren & Cathy
I hope I'm not jumping the gun on this nor do I want to offend the fine folks at ETI but I think with our build to start fairly soon, I am going to ask them if they would put in extra reinforcing strips in the roof and bolt the panel to the roof. I had assumed that was the way they were mounted anyway. We run the great plains a lot, especially Interstates 70, 80, and 90 and the winds can really blow out there let alone getting into a squall. I have seen empty tractor trailers get blown over on their side. I would be more than willing to pay extra for this and it would give great peace of mind. Plus can you imagine the liability involved if the panel went through someones windshield? I will run this by ETI next week and see what they say. And that's why our trailer is being named "Spirit of the Plains" Loren
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Please let us know your eti results as we have a 5.ota going into production very soon.
ken
__________________
ESCAPE #3, 19FT ON ORDER
TV - NOT YET, THINKING RIDGELINE OR F150
KEN AND DIANA, CALGARY
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06-05-2015, 10:48 AM
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#53
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Ventura County, California
Trailer: 2013 19 Escape
Posts: 7,204
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loren & Cathy
I hope I'm not jumping the gun on this nor do I want to offend the fine folks at ETI but I think with our build to start fairly soon, I am going to ask them if they would put in extra reinforcing strips in the roof and bolt the panel to the roof. I had assumed that was the way they were mounted anyway. We run the great plains a lot, especially Interstates 70, 80, and 90 and the winds can really blow out there let alone getting into a squall. I have seen empty tractor trailers get blown over on their side. I would be more than willing to pay extra for this and it would give great peace of mind. Plus can you imagine the liability involved if the panel went through someones windshield? I will run this by ETI next week and see what they say. And that's why our trailer is being named "Spirit of the Plains" Loren
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I have no reinforcing in the roof of my trailer I don't believe being built in 2013 . There is no way I can have a panel bolted through my roof without that . I know with any of these up drafts pulling on the panel I would be concerned it would crack the fiberglass with the strain and no reinforcement . I suppose you could add over vinyl , really don't think we would care for the look . Going to check out some more and seeing what Escape can come up with . But it is looking more and more like I need to just stick with my folding panel and generator . Pat
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06-05-2015, 11:01 AM
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#54
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Trailer: ESCAPE #3 COMING - 19 FT
Posts: 277
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patandlinda
I have no reinforcing in the roof of my trailer I don't believe being built in 2013 . There is no way I can have a panel bolted through my roof without that . I know with any of these up drafts pulling on the panel I would be concerned it would crack the fiberglass with the strain and no reinforcement . I suppose you could add over vinyl , really don't think we would care for the look . Going to check out some more and seeing what Escape can come up with . But it is looking more and more like I need to just stick with my folding panel and generator . Pat
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one other option is to use the newest style of flexible panels, when mounted they have no air space below.
ken
__________________
ESCAPE #3, 19FT ON ORDER
TV - NOT YET, THINKING RIDGELINE OR F150
KEN AND DIANA, CALGARY
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06-05-2015, 11:06 AM
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#55
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Ventura County, California
Trailer: 2013 19 Escape
Posts: 7,204
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kvermeulen
one other option is to use the newest style of flexible panels, when mounted they have no air space below.
ken
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Was wondering if the flexible panels work very well ? The life span are only 10 years unlike the panel that blew off the life span is 25 years . The price is pretty high also compared to flat panels . Pat
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06-05-2015, 11:32 AM
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#56
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Arvada, Colorado
Trailer: 2015 E'21 - 'Velocity'. Tow: Toyota Tacoma V6, 4X4, manual.
Posts: 1,684
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patandlinda
Was wondering if the flexible panels work very well ? The life span are only 10 years unlike the panel that blew off the life span is 25 years . The price is pretty high also compared to flat panels . Pat
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Keep in mind that the flexible panels need cooling just like a rigid panel. And that the flexible panel doesn't have a protective layer of tempered glass to protect it from hail and impact.
--
Alan
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06-05-2015, 12:07 PM
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#57
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Ventura County, California
Trailer: 2013 19 Escape
Posts: 7,204
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alanmalk
Keep in mind that the flexible panels need cooling just like a rigid panel. And that the flexible panel doesn't have a protective layer of tempered glass to protect it from hail and impact.
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Alan
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Thanks Allan that one has been removed from the equalation. Pat
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06-05-2015, 02:22 PM
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#58
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Arvada, Colorado
Trailer: 2015 E'21 - 'Velocity'. Tow: Toyota Tacoma V6, 4X4, manual.
Posts: 1,684
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patandlinda
Thanks Allan that one has been removed from the equalation. Pat
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Don't give up entirely on flexible panels.
Some day the awning will be made out of flexible solar material. That way it is air cooled from underneath when deployed, and protected from damage when traveling or bad weather arrives (rolled up). Oh, and the cost will be less than canvas and the output will be many 100's of watts. In our lifetimes? We can hope...
(Along with my combination 12v microwave, dish washer, laundry machine.)
--
Alan
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06-05-2015, 02:30 PM
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#59
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Ventura County, California
Trailer: 2013 19 Escape
Posts: 7,204
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alanmalk
Don't give up entirely on flexible panels.
Some day the awning will be made out of flexible solar material. That way it is air cooled from underneath when deployed, and protected from damage when traveling or bad weather arrives (rolled up). Oh, and the cost will be less than canvas and the output will be many 100's of watts. In our lifetimes? We can hope...
(Along with my combination 12v microwave, dish washer, laundry machine.)
--
Alan
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Now that's what I want ! Pat
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06-05-2015, 08:13 PM
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#60
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Vancouver, BC, British Columbia
Trailer: 19'
Posts: 326
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loren & Cathy
I hope I'm not jumping the gun on this nor do I want to offend the fine folks at ETI but I think with our build to start fairly soon, I am going to ask them if they would put in extra reinforcing strips in the roof and bolt the panel to the roof.
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I spoke to Reace last year. At that time, he would put in reinforcing and bolt the panel to the roof. He could even raise panel up a few inches, to minimize shadowing on the panel and allow for cooling air flow underneath. I asked him what his thoughts were about waterproofing/putting extra holes in roof with the bolts. At that time, if I remember correctly, I think his response was that (1) it's no different than all the other holes in the trailer, and (2) the sealant they use nowadays is so good it's a non issue.
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