Progressive Dynamics 14.8v Charging Rate

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

Dave,
If you had the factory solar option and dual 6 ers, would you have still performed this change?

Jim: Yes. Everything Robert said above plus solar is not a silver bullet even if we did have it. As you know effectiveness varies depending on wattage installed, latitude, tilt, cloud and tree cover, etc. For example, the trailer spends about a month in Erie PA in November for steelhead fishing and there are many cloudy/rainy days and pretty heavy use on the batteries. The most reliable is running the generator for a few hours every couple of days and now being able to force the mode into boost. This is in an open field with no one to bother. Also if plugged in at home or camping I like that our dual 6V’s are being treated better with more sophisticated charging algorithms.

Also I like having an American made piece of equipment with a reliable customer service number I can call if I have an issue. In fact during the install I called PD and a tech called me right back. (I thought it wasn’t dropping into storage mode, but all was fine. He spent 15 minutes or so patiently taking me through some diagnostic checks.)

[richardr]

I just finishing installing the Wildcat inverter. Thank you for your explanation, Rubicon327. The inverter went in relatively easily. I loosened the DC board from the latch at the bottom and unhookied the top to more easily route the DC cables behind it. It went back in very easily.

I checked the tightness of the other connections and found 2 issues. One was very serious. The serious one was the neutral wire for the AC was loose and had charred the last 3 inches. (See included photos) I was able to loosen the cable outside the breaker box to give me enough slack to cut the last 3 inches off and remake the connection. The other issue was the positive DC cable for the refrigerator had only half the strands inside the connector. The rest were hanging out. I cut off some additional insulation and twisted the strands so the entire cable went into the connector.

[Oldtimer]

Great catch loose connections are the biggest cause of electrical fires �� when we pick up our 21 in September I will be checking all connections. Everyone should be checking theirs also to prevent a tragedy

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by richardr

I just finishing installing the Wildcat inverter. Thank you for your explanation, Rubicon327. The inverter went in relatively easily. I loosened the DC board from the latch at the bottom and unhookied the top to more easily route the DC cables behind it. It went back in very easily.

I checked the tightness of the other connections and found 2 issues. One was very serious. The serious one was the neutral wire for the AC was loose and had charred the last 3 inches. (See included photos) I was able to loosen the cable outside the breaker box to give me enough slack to cut the last 3 inches off and remake the connection. The other issue was the positive DC cable for the refrigerator had only half the strands inside the connector. The rest were hanging out. I cut off some additional insulation and twisted the strands so the entire cable went into the connector.

Rick: Glad the install went well and it was a smart move removing the DC board. Also really glad you caught the A/C neutral wire before you had a bigger problem. I actually tightened everything while I was inside the power center. I did find a couple of connections that were looser than I would have liked. It is a good reminder from Oldtimer to check all connections periodically.

[Duer]

Everyone,

Since there are no dumb questions as I read and look into the 12 Volt side of life
I'd like to ask a very basic question about an Escape solar charging system.

1. When a solar system from ETI is installed at the factory is it correct to assume that the inverter
replaces the standard converter that comes with the trailer?

2. I also read a lot about the need for a battery monitor to really see what charge state the batteries are at. So here's the question. Without installing a battery monitor parallel to the incoming charge there appears to be no way of knowing the true state of your battery charge?
Have I got this right?

Duer

[sclifrickson]

Hi, Duer. I’ll attempt to boil this down for you.

Solar, converter and inverter are all separate items with separate functions. Solar is pretty self explanatory. Based on your question I will only add that solar does not incorporate an inverter function, nor does it replace the standard converter. Solar just adds a separate charging source, via the requisite charge controller, for your batteries. This operates independently of your normal charging system, which is your converter.

Regarding the converter, in your trailer it does two things. First, it charges your batteries. Secondly, it directly provides power to your 12V systems when your trailer is plugged into 120V (shore power). Most stuff in your RV runs off 12V. When not plugged in this comes directly from the batteries. When plugged in it comes from your converter, which converts the 120V to 12V.

An inverter is an optional gizmo that does the opposite of a converter. It inverts 12V from your batteries into 120V, so you can run normal 120V household appliances when you’re not on shore power, eg microwave, coffee pot, etc.

So to recap and directly address your question, ETI solar does not include an inverter (that is a separate option), and neither solar nor inverter option replace the normal converter. This whole thread that deals with replacing the stock converter is simply to upgrade the stock unit to a better unit. The stock one works. The Progressive Dynamic aftermarket one just works better.

Lastly, regarding battery monitors, I would agree that without using a true battery monitor, other methods are far less accurate. An analogy would be having a gas can that you can see through that has a graduated measuring scale on the side, vs an opaque container that you can only gauge by sloshing and listening to the sound it makes.

Hope this helps clear things up for you.

[richardr]

Originally Posted by sclifrickson

Hi, Duer. I’ll attempt to boil this down for you.

Solar, converter and inverter are all separate items with separate functions. Solar is pretty self explanatory. Based on your question I will only add that solar does not incorporate an inverter function, nor does it replace the standard converter. Solar just adds a separate charging source, via the requisite charge controller, for your batteries. This operates independently of your normal charging system, which is your converter.

Regarding the converter, in your trailer it does two things. First, it charges your batteries. Secondly, it directly provides power to your 12V systems when your trailer is plugged into 120V (shore power). Most stuff in your RV runs off 12V. When not plugged in this comes directly from the batteries. When plugged in it comes from your converter, which converts the 120V to 12V.

An inverter is an optional gizmo that does the opposite of a converter. It inverts 12V from your batteries into 120V, so you can run normal 120V household appliances when you’re not on shore power, eg microwave, coffee pot, etc.

So to recap and directly address your question, ETI solar does not include an inverter (that is a separate option), and neither solar nor inverter option replace the normal converter. This whole thread that deals with replacing the stock converter is simply to upgrade the stock unit to a better unit. The stock one works. The Progressive Dynamic aftermarket one just works better.

Lastly, regarding battery monitors, I would agree that without using a true battery monitor, other methods are far less accurate. An analogy would be having a gas can that you can see through that has a graduated measuring scale on the side, vs an opaque container that you can only gauge by sloshing and listening to the sound it makes.

Hope this helps clear things up for you.

Great explanation! I read the question and said to myself, "I expect someone will have a better explanation than I can give." Your's is.

[rubicon327]

Boy am I glad I waited for someone else to post. Great explanation. The only thing I would add that is a clarification for only those that are not familiar at all with electrical...

The converter takes 120V AC (alternating current from shore power or generator) and outputs 12V+/- DC (direct current). An inverter does exactly the opposite. My point is that it is not just a change in voltage, but the type of power.

[Oldtimer]

Great post Duer

[gbaglo]

Originally Posted by Oldtimer

Great post Duer

And, great answers Scott.

[Duer]

Thank you Sclifrickson for a great answer.
I've more inverter and converter but I think it best to start a new thread when appropriate.

Cheers

[rbryan4]

Originally Posted by Duer

Thank you Sclifrickson for a great answer.
I've more inverter and converter but I think it best to start a new thread when appropriate.

Cheers

It was an excellent explanation. To keep inverter and converter straight, in the simplest terms, just remember that a Converter is AC to DC, and an Inverter is DC to AC.

The first is with shore power, the second is without. The rest is just details. When I was first learning about them, I kept it straight by using "con" from the name Converter to mean "connected" outside, and the "in" from the name Inverter to mean "internal" power (not connected outside).

[Eggscape]

Originally Posted by richardr

I just finishing installing the Wildcat inverter. Thank you for your explanation, Rubicon327. The inverter went in relatively easily. I loosened the DC board from the latch at the bottom and unhookied the top to more easily route the DC cables behind it. It went back in very easily.

I checked the tightness of the other connections and found 2 issues. One was very serious. The serious one was the neutral wire for the AC was loose and had charred the last 3 inches. (See included photos) I was able to loosen the cable outside the breaker box to give me enough slack to cut the last 3 inches off and remake the connection. The other issue was the positive DC cable for the refrigerator had only half the strands inside the connector. The rest were hanging out. I cut off some additional insulation and twisted the strands so the entire cable went into the connector.

Could you please pass these pictures onto ETI. I am sure they will take this very seriously. Not every owner is on this forum or may not even read this particular thread. If they can correct this oversight tomorrow on all trailers waiting delivery and future deliveries it may save someone’s trailer.
Personally I would like to see this have its own thread with appropriate title and become a sticky.

[Jim Bennett]

Originally Posted by richardr

Thanks for the Wildcat installation information. Mine is sitting in its box waiting for me to get busy.

This situation kinda sounds much like my door lock replacement when we were camped beside you at Quartzsite. It took quite a while for me to "get busy" and do it, then only a short time to get it done. BTW, we just love the convenience of it.

Originally Posted by Oldtimer

Great catch loose connections are the biggest cause of electrical fires �� when we pick up our 21 in September I will be checking all connections. Everyone should be checking theirs also to prevent a tragedy

Always a good idea to check these connections. I had checked my breakers when the trailer was new, but just before we left on this trip we are on and installed a new AC circuit along with a transfer switch, I found a couple a bit loose. Solid wire like the Loomex used for the AC is more susceptible to loosening than stranded wire would be.

As a bit of an aside, it is also good to check all bolts and screws on our trailer with regular maintenance to ensure they are adequately tight.

[tdf-texas]

Sometimes the guys at Escape miss a few. It's a good idea to check ALL your connections as soon as you get your trailer to catch the ones they miss. I found a loose connection that was missed in the breaker box for the inverter (screw in ground bar sticking out more than the rest in pic below). Only took a minute to fix but I had outlets without a ground because of it.

[Duer]

Inverter change out Q..

If I may ask....What are the reason(s) for the inverter change outs compared with
the solar package stock factory ETI inverter?

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Duer

If I may ask....What are the reason(s) for the inverter change outs compared with
the solar package stock factory ETI inverter?

I think it's time to review the descriptions of the three types of equipment given above, in Scott's excellent post.

The equipment being changed in this discussion is the converter, not an inverter and not a solar charge controller. The reason for this changing was also in Scott's post:

Originally Posted by sclifrickson

This whole thread that deals with replacing the stock converter is simply to upgrade the stock unit to a better unit. The stock one works. The Progressive Dynamic aftermarket one just works better.

"Better", in this case, means a converter which provides a more appropriate charging voltage to the battery than the stock converter.

[Duer]

Oops am I bad

Thanks Brian B-P for getting me straight.
Is see from this there is a lot of info in most threads easy to get mixed up...lol

Cheers

[rbryan4]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

"Better", in this case, means a converter which provides a more appropriate charging voltage to the battery than the stock converter.

Yes, along with an equalization cycle, the ability to manually change the charging mode, better and quieter fans, and cleaner DC power filtering with no more flickering lights. Even if the charging voltages were the same as the stock WFCO Converter/Charger, the rest would be worth the price of admission.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by rbryan4

Yes, along with an equalization cycle, the ability to manually change the charging mode, better and quieter fans, and cleaner DC power filtering with no more flickering lights. Even if the charging voltages were the same as the stock WFCO Converter/Charger, the rest would be worth the price of admission.

I would say that the equalization cycle and manual control both fall under "more appropriate charging voltage" , but the other changes are good, too.