Propane

[JohnB]

You need to go camping and catch some fish Glen.
That 5 lb trout would look good in a 1/2 gallon frying pan.
Cook it over an open fire and you don't have to worry about how many gallons, US or Imp, or lbs or kgs of propane you have.

But how many chords of wood will you need?

[padlin]

Originally Posted by gbaglo

How do you know they were empty?

Easy, the Weber grill at home stopped working for bottle #1 a week or so ago.

For bottle #2, at the trailer the indicator on the auto switcher turned red last Wednesday during a short fishing trip.

I took both occurrences to mean the 2 tanks were empty. I do own a 50lb scale that I use before a trip to see if the online trailer tank should be filled. I like to start with them full.

Never been charged by the pound. Either they hit me with a flat rate irregardless of being empty or not, or they charge by the gallon. Something is goofy, you getting charged by the pound, I'd expect kilo's or maybe liters/litres. Much more fun keeping visiting Americans confused that way.

[gbaglo]

I'm going to launch a class-action suit as soon as I can find a lawyer to take it on pro bono.

Poutine.

[gbaglo]

I'm going to pour myself a cup of coffee and wait for Brian B-P to weigh in on the discussion.

[Ron in BC]

Originally Posted by gbaglo

You can read the tare ( the empty weight - it's stamped on the container ) and use a luggage scale to determine how many pounds of propane are left. Subtract the tare weight from the scale weight and you get the weight of the contents. You can use your luggage scale for luggage and for propane.

Or you can simply pick up the tank, heft it up and down a couple of times and say, umm, almost empty.

Ron

[gbaglo]

Originally Posted by Ron in BC

Or you can simply pick up the tank, heft it up and down a couple of times and say, umm, almost empty.

Ron

Do you have an Amazon link? Where do I find this heft?

[gbaglo]

Originally Posted by JohnB

But how many chords of wood will you need?

I donno. Choir master told me to mouth the words.

[KirkB]

What's the tare weight of an empty RAV4 gas tank? Doesn't matter when you buy by volume as is done south of the 49th. as long as the pump can measure gallons (or litres), you get what you paid for.

I kind of like being able to refill a tank before it is empty and only pay for what is put in the tank, instead of paying for the full 20 lbs (or should that be 9.08 kg) even if my tank is not empty.

[Brian B-P]

baglo, read the U.S. markings on a cylinder... they usually show the tank's volume in pounds of water.

If your personal hefting technique is not well-calibrated, you can just shake the cylinder - sloshing means there is some left, no sloshing means there is no liquid (and so no useful quantity of propane) left.

Although everyone fills small portable propane cylinders around here on a flat-rate basis (same charge regardless of how much it takes to fill it), in some areas they apparently go through a meter and charge for the actual amount... which is certainly a better deal if you only need part of a tank, and probably better even in the ideal case of an empty tank to start. Although the bulk price of propane here is much lower than it was a year or two ago, I think the gas stations still charge the same flat rate (other than Costco, which is always the cheapest and adjusts to the market); at the nearest station to me, that's CA$16/20 lb (or CA$0.87/L) compared to less than CA$0.60/L when metered (including delivery).

Portable cylinders are filled here by weight (the filling is stopped when the tank weighs what it should when full), but in many areas they are filled by volume (the filling is stopped when liquid starts spitting out of the 80% level bleed valve). Regardless of the method use to determine how much to put in, the quantity of propane can be expressed in weight, or in the standard volume corresponding to that weight (using the density which John listed); meters typically read in volume units.

Originally Posted by fudge_brownie

If you want to start with a full 20# propane tank do not use tanks from a propane exchange. ...
I'm glad they got my back.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by GCS

Yep thinking 30 lb high polished aluminum ...

That will look good. If you fill in locations where they control filling by weight, watch how much they put in. Every attendant I've seen assumes the same tare weight for every cylinder of the same nominal size, so if that's 25 pounds (empty) for a 30-pound cylinder, they fill it to 55 pounds... but your aluminum cylinder should be 6 to 7 pounds lighter, so if they fill it to 55 pounds total it will be overfilled, possibly dangerously so.

You might think a propane attendant would be bright enough to notice that that cylinder is shiny and read the tare weight off the collar, but I've never seen one read anything off a tank other than the expiry date, and only one has ever read the date. When filling the tank on our motorhome (which requires opening the bleed valve), one guy finished up and walked away, leaving the bleed valve open. Yes, a continuously running propane leak. I just closed it myself, and decided that I would continue to oversee what these idiots are doing.

[gbaglo]

I get my propane at Husky/Mowhawk and they weigh the cylinder and charge me for what they put in it.

[Dave Walter]

Originally Posted by gbaglo

I get my propane at Husky/Mowhawk and they weigh the cylinder and charge me for what they put in it.

I go to my local Husky as well. They also weigh the tank and charge me based on what they put in. They also check the tank expiry date before filling and have told me when it is about to expire.

[rbryan4]

We always try to find a propane shop when we need a refill. Although they usually cater to larger customers, they are usually very helpful to the smaller ones. They're also usually less expensive than the chains which sell propane, and they sell it by weight in small increments, so you only pay for what you get. I also like the idea of supporting the local business instead of the national chain. At a propane shop in Idaho for example, we were able to get both tanks filled for less than $10. Not bad.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by gbaglo

I get my propane at Husky/Mowhawk and they weigh the cylinder and charge me for what they put in it.

Nice. This varies by location, with a tendency to follow local trends.

Originally Posted by ice-breaker

I go to my local Husky as well. They also weigh the tank and charge me based on what they put in. They also check the tank expiry date before filling and have told me when it is about to expire.

Local can apparently be really local - Dave's location (Beaumont) has become essentially a suburb of Edmonton (as they have grown together), and yet I have not found a Husky anywhere where they either charge for actual quantity, or read any information on the tank.

I assume from the descriptions that they weigh the tank before filling, rather than just assuming that it is empty.
I wonder if staff at either of these Husky locations read the tare weight... or do they just assume a standard value? This determines whether it is filled to the correct level, and if they assume it is empty it also determines the amount they charge for.

[thoer]

The UHaul I take mine to unfortunately assumes that the tanks are empty - which mine almost always are. They just fill by the gallon to slightly less than the capacity. Once I took in a not completely empty one and LP came out of the safety check valve before he reached the "normal" gallon fill. When I first started there, they did it by weight but some years back switched to gallons.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by thoer

The UHaul I take mine to unfortunately assumes that the tanks are empty - which mine almost always are. They just fill by the gallon to slightly less than the capacity. Once I took in a not completely empty one and LP came out of the safety check valve before he reached the "normal" gallon fill.

Just putting in a specific volume is not an acceptable way to fill a propane tank, even if it is empty. Filling until liquid spits out the 80% level bleed valve is a valid filling method, so as long as they always open that valve (and remember to close it when done ) and always stop if it spits, then they are properly ensuring a safe fill.

It sounds like this location is consistently underfilling tanks for their convenience, which is okay if the price is appropriate, and if you don't mind going out camping with a little less propane than your tanks' capacity.

[fudge_brownie]

Can I guess that if they are placing the customers tank on a scale they are selling by weight, or it may mean they are filling by weight. My U haul has the scale but then a meter is turning as they fill. Now what numbers are they using to arrive at the bill. A bit tricky because I may bring four tanks to fill.

One nice service they have is a portable charge card reader. You pay right at the pump. The draw back is you do not get a receipt so I do not have a clue what I am paying for.

Who cares as long as the tanks are full. Here I believe the scale is somehow connected to the shut off and when a preset weight is reached the pump shuts off. I have never seen them shut it off, they are usually answering my inane questions or looking bored.

I think the meter must be cumulative, they do a reset before they start and then must plug the final gallons in before swiping my card.

Man that's some heavy thinking, I think I'll go out and sharpen my solar panel or perhaps pick the stones out of my tires.

[Iowa Dave]

Just filled a tank this afternoon at a locally owned convenience store. They have a sign that makes a point of the exchange tanks being only three fourths of capacity. Here they weight the empty tank on a scale, 17.6 lbs, set the filled weight to 37.6 lbs and put the gas to it. When the scale balance lever indicates full they shut off the gas and check the filled tank weight for 37.6 lbs and charge you $17.11 U.S. And away you go. And the lady who fills the tank is very pleasant about it because she likes to get outside once in a while. Plus you can pick up a growler inside if you're parched. Works for me.
Iowa Dave

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by fudge_brownie

Can I guess that if they are placing the customers tank on a scale they are selling by weight, or it may mean they are filling by weight. My U haul has the scale but then a meter is turning as they fill. Now what numbers are they using to arrive at the bill
...
Here I believe the scale is somehow connected to the shut off and when a preset weight is reached the pump shuts off. I have never seen them shut it off, they are usually answering my inane questions or looking bored.

I agree that placing the cylinder on the scale indicates either pricing or filling by weight, but if they are metering the propane as well the scale would presumably be only for determining when to stop the fill.

Automatically shutting off the fill according to weight makes sense, but I would be very surprised if anyone does that. Propane filling equipment rarely includes an electrically-operated valve, so the weight-triggered cutoff would not be practical. More likely, they're manually turning it off either when the target weight is reached, or the Overfill Prevention Device (OPD) - which is supposed to be only a secondary safety backup - blocks flow.

Originally Posted by Iowa Dave

Here they weight the empty tank on a scale, 17.6 lbs, set the filled weight to 37.6 lbs and put the gas to it. When the scale balance lever indicates full they shut off the gas and check the filled tank weight for 37.6 lbs and charge you $17.11 U.S.

That's filling by weight, and charging a flat fee, both as is the most common practice here. They should read the tare weight from the tank, not just assume that every 20-pound-capacity propane cylinder ever made weighs the same 17.6 pounds (they certainly don't).

That flat fee (US$17.11 or about CA$22) seems wildly expensive to me for a non-exchange fill.

[Iowa Dave]

I agree that they need to look at the tare weight instead of assuming which she did. The fill is 16.00, tax brought it to 17.11. The bulk suppliers are not much cheaper. I think they are run by the Cahoots brothers. If we could convert to methane, which doesn't smell so good when burned, the hog confinement operations in Iowa could supply all the campers in the world. Or so it seems on some of those warm summer evenings. I'm only in for a few tanks a year for camping, home bbq, campfire in a can and ice fishing so it's not to serious of an outlay for us.
Dave.