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Old 08-15-2017, 07:17 AM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C&G in FL View Post
The reason Nathan's alarm doesn't go off when the bench lid is open is because the minute amount of hydrogen gas needed to set of the alarm is rising to the ceiling of the trailer rather than accumulating near the alarm itself.
Thanks C&G for the explanation! I didn't connect the dots to get me to that conclusion. I thought that if the gas was present anywhere in the trailer it would set off the alarm. I guess I was once again wrong (an all too reoccurring thing with me!). What is good, I suppose, is that the gas if released into the trailer rises high enough to not trigger the alarm.

Of course, being hydrogen and all, if it does rise into the loft and we inhale it during our sleep, we will wake up pressed against the ceiling.
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Old 08-15-2017, 07:40 AM   #82
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I recall that the original ParkLiner had an internal battery located in an un-vented area (under the bed?). Someone didn't think that one all the way through! After many complaints from early customers regarding battery odor, it was relocated outside to the tongue. Problem solved....
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Old 08-15-2017, 07:46 AM   #83
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Now that you mention it, when it gets really hot outside, (in Maine that means the 80s), the trailer does smell different then when it's cool. I didn't know what that was, but maybe it is the batteries. I still prefer them inside and not on the tongue, but that might explain it.


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Old 08-15-2017, 07:56 AM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C&G in FL View Post
I spent hours and hours working on this problem in my 5.0TA with its "properly" vented battery box. There only actions that one can take are:
1) Put up with false alarms and be frequently rattled,
2) Disconnect the alarms power source and vent the storage compartment (but the problem will recur),
3) Seal the lid to a point that nothing can escape the battery box,
4) Relocate the alarm to the other side of the trailer,
5) Replace the flooded lead battery/batteries with AGMs.
Carl/Nathan: These two threads are interrelated. I'm wondering if the Flow Systems Water-Miser caps can be another solution or part of a solution. Not enough data yet, but Eddie has reported good feedback so far. I just received mine yesterday and will be installing these soon.

www.escapeforum.org/forums/f8/e-21-battery-box-venting-mod-10944.html#post211020
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Old 08-15-2017, 08:49 AM   #85
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I'd love to know how they work! Please let us know.
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Old 08-15-2017, 09:38 AM   #86
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I relocated my propane alarm to the opposite side of my trailer from my batteries. In the two weeks since I have not had a false alarm.
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Old 08-15-2017, 09:51 AM   #87
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I relocated my propane alarm to the opposite side of my trailer from my batteries. In the two weeks since I have not had a false alarm.
Mike: I hope this is all you have to do to solve the problem. Our alarms started when I moved the batteries inside to complete my mini-split mod. It is a vented box (not 100% sealed where cables come in) that resides under the front passenger side dinette seat in the 19. The combination LP/CO detector is about midway down the trailer near the floor. One would think this would be far enough away to prevent the false alarms. Not for us! It does seem to have happened when the trailer was closed up tight for a few days. I'm very interested in seeing how the Flow Systems Water-Miser caps help the situation.
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Old 08-15-2017, 11:24 AM   #88
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Personally, I wouldn't view this as an exercise to get the alarm to stop by relocating it, etc. The alarm is doing its job and alerting to a potentially dangerous situation. With all the Cpap's in use and respiratory issues that abound I wouldn't want to be inhaling battery gases in my trailer in any concentration.
Eddie's and Carl's approaches would be the solution. Seal and vent the battery box correctly or get AGM's.
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Old 08-15-2017, 12:25 PM   #89
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In addition to relocating the alarm I improved the seal on the battery box. Any remaining trace amounts of hydrogen gas that leak out should go to the ceiling and out the roof vent. I do intend to replace the batteries with AGMs in the future.
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Old 08-15-2017, 01:39 PM   #90
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The purpose of the propane alarm is to detect leaking propane, and moving the alarm to the other side of the trailer doesn't affect its ability to do this. I am far more concerned about that than I am about trace amounts of gas from the batteries.

The worst thing for me to do would be to put a switch on the alarm. Inevitably I would turn the alarm off and forget to switch it on again.
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Old 08-15-2017, 02:48 PM   #91
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Personally, I wouldn't view this as an exercise to get the alarm to stop by relocating it, etc. The alarm is doing its job and alerting to a potentially dangerous situation. With all the Cpap's in use and respiratory issues that abound I wouldn't want to be inhaling battery gases in my trailer in any concentration.
Eddie's and Carl's approaches would be the solution. Seal and vent the battery box correctly or get AGM's.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Lewis View Post
The purpose of the propane alarm is to detect leaking propane, and moving the alarm to the other side of the trailer doesn't affect its ability to do this. I am far more concerned about that than I am about trace amounts of gas from the batteries.

The worst thing for me to do would be to put a switch on the alarm. Inevitably I would turn the alarm off and forget to switch it on again.
Trying to put this into perspective for my own sanity. It appears from research that a typically CO detector can be triggered into alarm with ~300 ppm of hydrogen. The lower explosive limit of hydrogen is 41,000 ppm. Granted it would be higher inside the battery box, but to approach the point of an explosion with one 12V battery or twin 6V batteries under normal charging conditions is improbable, if not impossible. Regarding inhalation, OSHA Permissible Exposure Limit (PEL) and Recommended Exposure Level (REL) are not set due to the fact that hydrogen is considered to be relatively safe below the flammable and explosive levels. I wasn't that good in Chemistry...someone correct me if I'm off base here.

I agree that with continued nuisance alarms the potential exists of disabling an alarm designed to detect propane and CO. That is the biggest risk.
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Old 08-15-2017, 09:49 PM   #92
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Hydrogen gas would probably not be toxic in low levels, but still personally wouldn't want to be breathing any battery gas if it's not necessary. Hydrogen gas is odorless and Nathan mentioned that in his trailer it was producing an odor at times. That is most likely hydrogen sulfide which is produced in battery overcharging situations and is toxic. If you have a solar setup you will encounter overcharging during the equalization cycle, which if I recall my equalization cycle runs every 28 days. Hydrogen sulfide gas can also be produced during normal charging cycles as batteries age.
Since this is preventable with properly sealing and venting the box as Eddie did or going to AGM batteries as Carl did why risk it. As Donna always says though YMMV.
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Old 08-15-2017, 10:41 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by Greg A View Post
Hydrogen gas would probably not be toxic in low levels, but still personally wouldn't want to be breathing any battery gas if it's not necessary. Hydrogen gas is odorless and Nathan mentioned that in his trailer it was producing an odor at times. That is most likely hydrogen sulfide which is produced in battery overcharging situations and is toxic. If you have a solar setup you will encounter overcharging during the equalization cycle, which if I recall my equalization cycle runs every 28 days. Hydrogen sulfide gas can also be produced during normal charging cycles as batteries age.
Since this is preventable with properly sealing and venting the box as Eddie did or going to AGM batteries as Carl did why risk it. As Donna always says though YMMV.
Thanks Greg. Got it. Small amounts of hydrogen during normal charging. Hydrogen sulfide during any overcharging and even possible during normal charging on old batteries. Agree that sealing and venting to minimize any fumes in the trailer is a good approach. Or better yet AGM's.
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