Propane sensor alarm malfunction

[paulw]

Isn't the off-gassing from charging hydrogen? Doesn't seem like it would sink to the floor to set off the alarm.
Ours went off probably a year after we picked up in 2014. I disconnected it and just had it replaced in June.

[SFDavis50]

Just talking about enough gas to set of an alarm, not become toxic or cause an explosion. The gas will probably go wherever it is pulled. The MaxxFan in the ceiling or the chimney effect of a heated trailer will suck in air from all kinds of unsealed or poorly sealed areas. It is possible that a slight vacuum could suck air from the battery box vent tube into the box and out of a poorly sealed box into the trailer. It seems somewhat possible that if the box is close to the detector it could suck the gas through the detector vents causing the alarm. A very calm night or a slight breeze into the battery vent, and, I think much more gassy golf cart batteries could be the problem.
On the 5.0 TA with the U shaped dinette are the batteries in the same location or are they moved farther back?

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by SFDavis50

I just remember refilling a golf cart battery bank once and the caps just easily popped off. My car batteries caps need to be pried off with the help of a screwdriver.

That's the difference between a normal flooded lead-acid battery (which includes all flooded deep-cycles) and a "low maintenance" or "no maintenance" flooded lead-acid automotive battery. The deep cycle battery requires electrolyte maintenance (adding water), and the caps are designed for that. For the car, they know you're not going to maintain it, and the caps are not designed to be removed. They're both similarly vented.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Greg A

Battery will charge whether the battery switch is on or off. Solar goes direct to battery and I'm not sure but shore power will probably continue to charge the battery with switch off, but someone else can confirm that one way or another.

The purpose of the disconnect switch is to keep power from flowing from the battery to the circuits connected to the fuse panel.

The connection between the converter and the DC power distribution fuse panel is internal to the converter box; the disconnect switch between the battery and the fuse panel is outside of the converter box. I think it's reasonable to assume that the disconnect switch will disconnect the converter from the battery... because to allow continued charging with the switch off the output wire from the converter would need to come out of the converter box and connect to the battery's side of the disconnect switch (like the solar charger output).

[C&G in FL]

Originally Posted by SFDavis50

Just talking about enough gas to set of an alarm, not become toxic or cause an explosion. The gas will probably go wherever it is pulled. The MaxxFan in the ceiling or the chimney effect of a heated trailer will suck in air from all kinds of unsealed or poorly sealed areas. It is possible that a slight vacuum could suck air from the battery box vent tube into the box and out of a poorly sealed box into the trailer. It seems somewhat possible that if the box is close to the detector it could suck the gas through the detector vents causing the alarm. A very calm night or a slight breeze into the battery vent, and, I think much more gassy golf cart batteries could be the problem.
On the 5.0 TA with the U shaped dinette are the batteries in the same location or are they moved farther back?

In my 5.0TA, I do have dual 6 volt batteries. They are located on the passenger (door) side of the trailer, under the rear bench. It is my understanding that without the wrap around dinette, they are under the passenger side bench.
When I was discussing the situation with the alarm manufacturer, I specifically asked about hydrogen gas setting off the alarm and was told yes, hydrogen from charging batteries could/would set it off. The alarm is no more than 3-feet from the battery box in an enclosed space. While I have never smelled propane, hydrogen is odorless. And I agree that it is likely minute amounts of something, not enough to be toxic or explosive, just enough to be a PITA! Otherwise, I would not have installed a switch to override a safety device when it is being an annoyance.

[Vermilye]

I have a 2011 17 & had to replace the propane detector 2 years ago. No pets, (although I did eat beans every once in a while). It would go off with the propane turned off at the tanks overnight parked at home with no one in the trailer. After my neighbor almost called the fire department, I replaced it. Knock on wood, the new one (a combined propane & CO detector) has functioned normally.

[Losangeles]

Originally Posted by Vermilye

I have a 2011 17 & had to replace the propane detector 2 years ago. No pets, (although I did eat beans every once in a while). It would go off with the propane turned off at the tanks overnight parked at home with no one in the trailer. After my neighbor almost called the fire department, I replaced it. Knock on wood, the new one (a combined propane & CO detector) has functioned normally.

Hey Jon - may I ask what combined propane & CO detector make and model you got?

always good to know.

[gbaglo]

And, with a combined CO and propane detector, how does the manufacturer address placement? Propane should be just off the floor and CO should be at about three feet above the floor.

[Losangeles]

Originally Posted by gbaglo

And, with a combined CO and propane detector, how does the manufacturer address placement? Propane should be just off the floor and CO should be at about three feet above the floor.

Well.... The detector is REALLY big.



(Kidding)

[J Mac]

Originally Posted by gbaglo

And, with a combined CO and propane detector, how does the manufacturer address placement? Propane should be just off the floor and CO should be at about three feet above the floor.

They've turned them into belt buckles.

[Sandyb12]

My propane detector has been going off also. I just picked up my 5.0 TA at the end of March.
I vacuumed the vent. It didn't help. It has been well over 100* for many many days which is normal for central California. I placed a fan in the floor of the trailer pointed at the propane detector and it has quit going off. So, during the summer when at home I will just leave a fan running.

[SFDavis50]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

That's the difference between a normal flooded lead-acid battery (which includes all flooded deep-cycles) and a "low maintenance" or "no maintenance" flooded lead-acid automotive battery. The deep cycle battery requires electrolyte maintenance (adding water), and the caps are designed for that. For the car, they know you're not going to maintain it, and the caps are not designed to be removed. They're both similarly vented.

They're both similarly vented in the trailer but the golf cart batteries convert a lot more of the hydrogen in H2O to hydrogen gas which then requires frequently adding more H2O. Yesterday I added a very small amount of distilled water to the 2 1/2 year old battery in my F 150. (for the first time since I installed it) The two outer cells were a little lower than the other 4 cells but there was plenty of water in them. Golf cart batteries would be toast long before that. The moral is to realize that the deep cycle batteries are very gassy compared to car batteries and pay attention to venting the trailer. Also, frequently check the water levels.

[SFDavis50]

Originally Posted by Losangeles

Well.... The detector is REALLY big.



(Kidding)

I wonder if there is any difference between a propane and CO detector at all. There is a difference between a smoke and CO detector but it seems like placement would be the big difference with CO. COSTCO in Colorado is selling a lithium Ion battery powered CO detector with a 10 year life span. Seems like a good back up. and you can move it to your house when you aren't camping.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by SFDavis50

They're both similarly vented in the trailer but the golf cart batteries convert a lot more of the hydrogen in H2O to hydrogen gas which then requires frequently adding more H2O. Yesterday I added a very small amount of distilled water to the 2 1/2 year old battery in my F 150. (for the first time since I installed it) The two outer cells were a little lower than the other 4 cells but there was plenty of water in them. Golf cart batteries would be toast long before that. The moral is to realize that the deep cycle batteries are very gassy compared to car batteries and pay attention to venting the trailer. Also, frequently check the water levels.

Perhaps, but the difference in the way automotive batteries and deep-cycle batteries are used is so great, that it may just be that use that makes the difference. An automotive battery is rarely discharged significantly, is only used at high current for a second or two at a time, and has a charging system keeping it up all of the time that it is in use (unless you make a habit of parking for long time running accessories).

[Bill and Earline]

I also had the mystery propane alarms.
I am now on my third alarm. Each time the company says to send it in, that they will test it, and if defective they'll send a new one. Both times I get a new one, and the alarms stop in similar situations. I don't know if they actually test them and declare them faulty, or just send new ones.
So far, no charge, except to mail them in. Trailer is 20 months old and has had probably about 100 nights of use and is stored indoors at home, and plugged in.

[MyronL]

If my propane detector ever begins harassing me like you guys are reporting I think I will just cut it's wires and put my trust in the nature of things. IMHO so long as the tanks stay outside, much adoo about nothing.

[Ron in BC]

Originally Posted by MyronL

If my propane detector ever begins harassing me like you guys are reporting I think I will just cut it's wires and put my trust in the nature of things. IMHO so long as the tanks stay outside, much adoo about nothing.

Yeah, I tend to agree with you. Ours has had a couple of nuisance alarms this year. When I relocated it I put spade terminals on the connection. Easy to stop the alarm now. The nose is a pretty good leak detector, I won't worry if I have to leave it unconnected for a few days. Just vacuumed it. If it gives false alarms this trip then I'll consider replacing it.

Ron

[stephen99]

I just sent Sarah an email asking if they could please leave a small loop of wire at the back of any device that might need replacement (propane detector, battery monitor etc) to make it easier to pull out.

[casejh]

Good idea. Please let us know what she says. Thanks.

[escape artist]

Originally Posted by C&G in FL

Jill, while I wouldn't make that assumption having dealt with this problem, it may very well have been a valud alert. While conversing with the manufacturer, I was told that if a dog lays next to the detector, it could go off. And many things (outgassing, paint odors, etc.) Mine is installed in the front of the dinette bench, somewhat near and in the same compartment as the supposedly sealed battery box. Since the detector has openings on its front and back side, I have often wondered if slight amounts of hydrogen gas are leaking into the compartment and not all are going out of the battery's vent tube. I have found that opening the outside hatch and placing a small fan in the storage compartment will sometimes clear the problem and stop the alarm. But you haven't lived until a propane alarm rattles you out of a deep sleep betwee 1:00 and 4:00 AM (when ours typically goes off). That is why ours is now controlled by a toggle switch; shut it off and deal with it in the morning unless I smell propane. Yes, I want to know if there is a propane leak, but any technology that produces unexplainable phantom alarms like the "boy who cried wolf" can create other issues. While it is better to be safe than sorry, being awakened three nights in a row in the middle of the night when the detector functioned "flawlessly" (no other alarms) for the rest of that 72 hour period was a bit much for us. After screwing around with it for 15 minutes in the middle of the night, it is often difficult to fall asleep again.

Hi: C&G in FL... Just a quick question. "After screwing around with it for 15 minutes in the middle of the night, it is difficult to fall asleep again". Does that activity set off your motion detector too? Alf
escape artist N.S. of Lake Erie