Tankless water heaters

[tdf-texas]

Originally Posted by rbryan4

I've always been intrigued by the idea of a tankless water heater in the trailer, mainly for the ability to take a normal shower instead of a quick "navy" shower. But there are a number of issues with that application, all of which have been discussed here from time to time. So, I'll stick with the good old 6 gallon and just consider the navy showers a part of camping.

I have the gas/electric model of the hot water heater (SW6DEL) and find that if I run both gas and electric at the same time, I don't run out of hot water no matter how much I use. I can only do this at a full hookup site though - need 120v and it fills the grey tank fast. Try it - you'll like it!

[rbryan4]

Originally Posted by tdf-texas

I have the gas/electric model of the hot water heater (SW6DEL) and find that if I run both gas and electric at the same time, I don't run out of hot water no matter how much I use. I can only do this at a full hookup site though - need 120v and it fills the grey tank fast. Try it - you'll like it!

Yep, that's one option I regret not getting - the dual fuel water heater. Ours is propane only. And you're right, it's only doable with full hookups.

On the gray tank issue though, since you have full hookups (including sewer), you could just have the sewer hose set up and open the gray valve for your shower. In fact, when we camp where there are full hookups, I usually set up the sewer hose just for that purpose. Whenever the gray tank is getting a bit full, just pull the valve.

But of course, never pull the black tank valve unless you're dumping. I'm still amazed at how many times at campgrounds I see 'experienced' campers with their sewer hose connected and their black tank valve left open the entire time.

I'm not into building pyramids, but to each their own. [emoji23]

[cpaharley2008]

But you need some grey to flush out your line after dumping the black.

[rbryan4]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

But you need some grey to flush out your line after dumping the black.

Well yeah, re-read my post. I don't leave it open. I just pre-connect so periodic dumping of gray water is easier. Our gray tank fills far more quickly than our black tank.

[mconrath]

Okay, I'm convinced on the wisdom of the traditional 6-gal hot water tank. And, given that we camp both on and off the grid, the gas/electric option has always been in my plan (would rather use their electricity instead of my propane whenever possible). But, I did not ever think to fire both sources at the same time. What are situations when one would want to do that other than the previously mentioned endless shower?

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by mconrath

Okay, I'm convinced on the wisdom of the traditional 6-gal hot water tank. And, given that we camp both on and off the grid, the gas/electric option has always been in my plan (would rather use their electricity instead of my propane whenever possible). But, I did not ever think to fire both sources at the same time. What are situations when one would want to do that other than the previously mentioned endless shower?

For a quicker warm up of the tank. If you arrive at a full service campsite with a cold tank of water and would like hot water quicker then you can use both fuel sources. Personally I find the propane alone provides hot water pretty quickly, but it depends on the temperature of the water you are starting with.

Recovery:
Gas: 10.1 gal/hr
Electric: 6.1 gal/hr
Combined: 16.2 gal/hr

[cpaharley2008]

I have never had the $$$ electric option in any of my Escapes, so I have saved close to $1,000. That will buy me a lot of propane refills, which I have yet to do. In addition the likelihood of blowing out the electric element is nil. I turn it on in the morning for an hour and in the evening for an hour. that is all that is needed to have hot water. So when I pay the same rate as someone else who has the electric option and feels that they are entitled to that free electric since they are paying for it, they are mistaken, we all are paying for it.

[Patandlinda]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

I have never had the $$$ electric option in any of my Escapes, so I have saved close to $1,000. That will buy me a lot of propane refills, which I have yet to do. In addition the likelihood of blowing out the electric element is nil. I turn it on in the morning for an hour and in the evening for an hour. that is all that is needed to have hot water. So when I pay the same rate as someone else who has the electric option and feels that they are entitled to that free electric since they are paying for it, they are mistaken, we all are paying for it.

Never could understand the need for the electric option in water heater . Such a small water heater compared to our homes . Have made a lot of improvements to our trailer but never would consider that one Pat

[rbryan4]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

So when I pay the same rate as someone else who has the electric option and feels that they are entitled to that free electric since they are paying for it, they are mistaken, we all are paying for it.

Sorry but I find that nonsensical. I pay the same rate at a hotel whether I use the towels or not, drink the in-room coffee or not, turn on the lights and TV or not, or use the toiletries and amenities or not. And yes, I'm "entitled" to do all those things because I paid for the room. Exact same thing at a campsite. The costs are averaged in. Someone running both propane and electric on their water heater at the same time won't have any effect at all on those averages. But if it makes you feel better not doing so, by all means.

[cpaharley2008]

You mentioned the key phrase averaged in costs, so if the average increases so will the costs. To me using propane and electric to heat your water is like turning on the a/c with windows open. I guarantee, if everyone used all their entitlements, prices would rise since the average rises. Maybe I remember too well the odd even gas days and when every other light in the federal workplace was off during the energy crisis. We can not return that energy we took and if we do not have to take it, why not conserve. Rant over.......

[rbryan4]

But it's not using propane and electric at the same time all the time. It's during a shower, or in some cases, two showers back to back. That way, there's plenty of hot water. Once you're done showering, the propane would be shut off, and a ready supply of hot water would be available from the electric for other purposes. That is an advantage of their design. The additional electrical power used in such a scenario would be negligible.

I don't believe in wasting fuel unnecessarily, but strictly speaking, you might as well dump the truck and the trailer, get a backpack and a tent and a sterno stove if you're that concerned about conservation. It's always a balance between comfort, convenience, cost and efficiency. And speaking of efficiency and conservation, that is one of the reasons why I have a small and lightweight trailer, even though I could afford one of the big rigs. It's a choice I made, but I don't resent others who chose differently.

[Brian B-P]

In a sense, heating (air or water) with electricity is fundamentally inefficient and nonsensical where the electricity is generated by burning natural gas (or diesel or kerosene) in a generating station - the gas (or propane or diesel or kerosene) should just be used in a direct burner. This is why electric home heating here in Alberta is nuts, and almost no one does it.

On the other hand, there are all sorts of practical reasons to heat things with electricity in specific circumstances, and the water heater in an RV in a serviced site seems like a good example to me. Using two energy sources (propane and electricity) doesn't mean more total energy is consumed than using either one individually - it just means heating up faster.

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

To me using propane and electric to heat your water is like turning on the a/c with windows open.

That makes no sense to me at all. If you run the air conditioner with the windows open, you're cooling air then dumping it outside, wasting the cooling. If you heat water with both propane and electricity at the same time, you're not heating it with one source then pouring it down the drain and heating replacement water with the other source. There's just no similarity.

Heating water with both propane and electricity at the same time is more like running the furnace and an electric heater at the same time. That might make a lot of sense, if one source doesn't get the trailer warmed up fast enough, or if there is a corner which stays cold with only one heat source running.

[Iowa Dave]

In a statement I heard a while back, those of us who believe in the generation of electrical power using wind turbines are doomed when the wind stops blowing. Ever been to Kansas, Nebraska, Iowa, South Dakota, etc etc etc? The wind will stop when the World stops rotation and we’ll have bigger problems than hot water in a campground.
Iowa
dave

[Dave Walter]

Originally Posted by Iowa Dave

In a statement I heard a while back, those of us who believe in the generation of electrical power using wind turbines are doomed when the wind stops blowing. Ever been to Kansas, Nebraska, Iowa, South Dakota, etc etc etc? The wind will stop when the World stops rotation and we’ll have bigger problems than hot water in a campground.
Iowa
dave

Dave, you do realize that if enough wind turbines are constructed, the force required from the wind to keep the wind turbines moving will be so large that the wind will come to a standstill and calm will prevail around the world!

[rbryan4]

Originally Posted by Dave Walter

Dave, you do realize that if enough wind turbines are constructed, the force required from the wind to keep the wind turbines moving will be so large that the wind will come to a standstill and calm will prevail around the world!

Wow, scary. Kind of like that congressman who asked whether having so many Marines on the island of Guam would make it sink or topple over.

[Iowa Dave]

Well when the wind stops blowing because the coriolus effect is taxed out of existence, maybe we can turn to solar power. In the shade of the panels we will grow ginseng and make tea and we will all feel good. I’m not worried about it. I can be self sufficient if I need to be. I have skills.
Iowa Dave

[cpaharley2008]

Infinite wisdom on finite resources......

[mconrath]

Okay, so that conversation deviated a bit. That's alright.

However, a good point to consider worked its way in there. How much propane can I buy with the $200 I will save by not choosing the 2-way hot water heater option? (Sorry Jim, but I don’t see myself buying 5 Escape trailers to get up to your $1000 savings.) To round to an easy number of $2.50 per gallon, that would be roughly 80 gallons. That is refilling a 5-gallon tank about 16 times. That is roughly 10 years of propane for me. I might have to reconsider that option.

[gbaglo]

Originally Posted by mconrath

I might have to reconsider that option.

You could also figure in the cost of full hookups to take advantage of the electricity.

[MikeS]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

I have never had the $$$ electric option in any of my Escapes, so I have saved close to $1,000. That will buy me a lot of propane refills, which I have yet to do. In addition the likelihood of blowing out the electric element is nil. I turn it on in the morning for an hour and in the evening for an hour. that is all that is needed to have hot water. So when I pay the same rate as someone else who has the electric option and feels that they are entitled to that free electric since they are paying for it, they are mistaken, we all are paying for it.

'

I suppose you also use the same amount of water with full hookups as with water only or you would out of your fresh tank? You know, to prevent having your neighbors pay for your water use?

Do you also have your roof top filled with solar so when you get to the electric site you aren't using more than your share to recharge your batteries? You don't waste electricity running a TV do you? I mean we all pay for that.

Geez, the more I think about it, RVers are really causing the tent campers who want a little electric to pay way more than what they are using since they pay the same as the electric RV sites.