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Old 10-10-2016, 10:26 PM   #21
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Viaja... thanks for the great advice but think I'll just leave my battery connections the way they are. Escape set them up for me and it's all been working swell. I'm good with that.

Brian when I chose the Xantrex, probably for the extra duplex outlets and the pretty digital display, I decided to get the biggest inverter I could afford. (Go big or go home, right?) Others might need 1500 watts, but I've always been a low voltage kind of guy. Say, did I mention it's all been working swell?

I plugged in my Dewalt 3/8ths drill just yesterday.
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Old 10-11-2016, 01:08 AM   #22
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MyronL, referring back to my post #4, I think you should connect + of one battery to - of second battery with jumper cables. That should satisfy everything.
There is a cable connecting the batteries, as there must be or nothing would work. It's kinda small, but it's there.
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Old 10-11-2016, 01:22 AM   #23
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... think I'll just leave my battery connections the way they are. Escape set them up for me and it's all been working swell. I'm good with that.
Escape installed the inverter with the negative cable going to the frame? I haven't seen that in other Escape installations. Perhaps they only wire the 1500 watt inverters directly to the batteries.

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Originally Posted by MyronL View Post
Brian when I chose the Xantrex, probably for the extra duplex outlets and the pretty digital display, I decided to get the biggest inverter I could afford. (Go big or go home, right?) Others might need 1500 watts, but I've always been a low voltage kind of guy. Say, did I mention it's all been working swell?

I plugged in my Dewalt 3/8ths drill just yesterday.
The lowest-power corded Dewalt 3/8" drill draws 6.7 amps (at 120 volts) at full power - that's over 70 amps of 12-volt DC power, well beyond the 600 watt rating of the inverter, and more than the 60 amps of the calculations. Although the drill will work if not fully loaded, the current draw is still substantial. It will work; it's just not efficient and not tolerant of low battery voltage.
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Old 10-11-2016, 08:57 AM   #24
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I installed the inverter. All heavier gauge than the (Escape) green wire to the frame, AWG4. Drill easily did the job. No inverter smoke, no sparks, no stress, no sweat.
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Old 10-11-2016, 01:54 PM   #25
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... think I'll just leave my battery connections the way they are. Escape set them up for me...
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Originally Posted by MyronL View Post
I installed the inverter. All heavier gauge than the (Escape) green wire to the frame, AWG4.
So Escape didn't really create this whole setup, since Myron added the inverter. I have no concerns with Escape's part, only the negative side of the inverter addition. I also have no concerns with the use of 4-gauge cables for the inverter.

By not connecting the inverter's negative cable directly to the battery, all current used by the inverter has been forced to flow through that green cable. The green cable and the cable connecting the two batteries were presumably not intended by Escape for the load of an inverter, and at least the green cable to the frame appears to be undersized for the total load with the added inverter; however, if it is large enough and the total length of cable is not too large, then everything is fine.
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Old 10-11-2016, 03:20 PM   #26
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There are some advantages with going with larger than required wire. It takes voltage to push lots (well, actually, any) amps through a wire. The term is voltage drop, and it takes place all throughout the chain, including within the batteries, the wiring, and connectors, fuses, and within the inverter itself.

At low currents, the amount of voltage drop is rarely a problem, but as you get close to the rating of the wire some start to show up. Some wire is rated at 90°C or higher, hot enough to concern some, particularly if you are using connectors, switches & fuse blocks that are not rated for the same or higher temperature.

To me, the real problem with voltage drop is the inverter shutting down while you still have usable battery capacity. If there is enough voltage drop that the input at the inverter is below 11 volts, most will alarm. Below 10 volts and most shut down. If your battery was really at 10 volts, that would be good since it prevents permanent damage. The reality is some of the voltage drop is in the battery, some in the wire, some in the connections, and some in the inverter. As soon as you shut the inverter off, the voltage at the inverter input jumps back to near the battery voltage, usually much higher than it was when under load.

Going with larger than required wire size will let you run the inverter longer or at times the batteries are down from full. Since most of the work is running the wiring, going with oversized wire will help prevent hassles in the long run. This is the reason Xantrex recommends at least #0 wire for its inverter installations even though their inverters under 2000 watts don't require it by code for short cable runs.
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Old 10-11-2016, 04:44 PM   #27
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Jon, Brian...Thanks, such good stuff! Will be going to Ace Hardware for some AWG2 2wire. Why take a chance?
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Old 10-12-2016, 04:45 PM   #28
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Solar and Front Storage Box for Batteries

Myron and those with solar and batteries in the front storage box.
Quote:
There are a number of reasons for not having the controller in the battery box. The first is the electrical danger. Flooded batteries may off gas, namely hydrogen, during the charge process and any chance of a spark could result in an explosion. Such events as a runaway charger or poorly programed charger can cause this as well.

Second, it is just good practice to isolate batteries from something you are adjusting or connecting in case of a dropped tool. So that slipped screwdriver does not create a light and sound show. Keeping non essential things out of the battery box and keeping the box closed while working is an important safety practice.

The third reason is the gas that is present in the battery box can cause a premature failure in the electrical components of a charger/controller, it is just plain hard on electronics. So keeping that controller outside eliminates that problem.
I recalled seeing Myron's photo of his front storage box and noticing that the solar controller/charger was mounted inside the box. When I had my 19' the front storage box had not been released, so I do not know how the batteries are stored. From the photos it appears there are two separate battery boxes, the type with vents on the lid. Is there any venting system of those battery boxes to the outside of the storage box?

If not, then some care must be taken when installing the controller/charger inside the front storage box. If the batteries are venting into the front storage box then that box becomes a battery box and the issues stated above may apply.
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Old 10-12-2016, 09:36 PM   #29
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Replaced the green AWG6 wire with AWG2, to the frame and, between the battery terminals.

Expect many years service from a quality converter. Manual says the closer the solar converter is to protected batteries, the better. Have zero reason for concern about an explosion caused by a sparking solar converter. Scary thought but believe in my application irrelevant. Plenty of ventilation in my not very tightly sealed (outer) storage box. Lid always remains open when solar wires are connecting to remote panels. Not to worry.
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Old 10-12-2016, 09:57 PM   #30
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I see why the lid is always open when on solar. You are correct, no build up of the nasty gases with your install.
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Old 10-12-2016, 10:05 PM   #31
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In my case, the battery box has two large open hoods for the cables to the terminals. My solar controller ( for the portable 40 watt panels ) is extremely basic. No switches. If I were fearing a spark, it would be from the alligator clips that attach to the battery terminals.
Since I have two panels, I have a spare controller in any case.
I'm thinking I'll just lay the controller on top of the battery and loosely lay the battery box lid on top. There will be plenty of ventilation and the controller will be sheltered from the rain.
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Old 10-13-2016, 03:50 PM   #32
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Replaced the green AWG6 wire with AWG2, to the frame and, between the battery terminals.
Great size for the combined current of all loads.
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Old 10-14-2016, 10:23 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by Vermilye View Post
There are some advantages with going with larger than required wire. It takes voltage to push lots (well, actually, any) amps through a wire. The term is voltage drop, and it takes place all throughout the chain, including within the batteries, the wiring, and connectors, fuses, and within the inverter itself.

At low currents, the amount of voltage drop is rarely a problem, but as you get close to the rating of the wire some start to show up. Some wire is rated at 90°C or higher, hot enough to concern some, particularly if you are using connectors, switches & fuse blocks that are not rated for the same or higher temperature.

To me, the real problem with voltage drop is the inverter shutting down while you still have usable battery capacity. If there is enough voltage drop that the input at the inverter is below 11 volts, most will alarm. Below 10 volts and most shut down. If your battery was really at 10 volts, that would be good since it prevents permanent damage. The reality is some of the voltage drop is in the battery, some in the wire, some in the connections, and some in the inverter. As soon as you shut the inverter off, the voltage at the inverter input jumps back to near the battery voltage, usually much higher than it was when under load.

Going with larger than required wire size will let you run the inverter longer or at times the batteries are down from full. Since most of the work is running the wiring, going with oversized wire will help prevent hassles in the long run. This is the reason Xantrex recommends at least #0 wire for its inverter installations even though their inverters under 2000 watts don't require it by code for short cable runs.
Very well said. This is what Brian B-P and I were driving at, but this was very convincing as to why you should have larger wire. A partial inverter load with full batteries isn't when you are going to have a problem. It will show itself with batteries down and a larger load on the inverter. I'm glad Myron changed to the 2 AWG. I hope he also has a minimum 8 AWG to the frame on the inverter chassis ground lug as outlined by Xantrex.
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Old 10-14-2016, 11:48 AM   #34
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I replaced the original thin wire that connected the 2 6v batteries with a cable made to connect a car battery to the starter. I thought I might have to use the batteries to jump start my suv at a remote campsite and was concerned about the amperage draw through the smallest wire in the system. Precautionary since I don't know if jump starting would have been a problem.
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Old 10-14-2016, 03:12 PM   #35
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Man, I do love any opportunity for picture/illustration.
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Old 10-14-2016, 05:28 PM   #36
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Hello
This makes good sense. Wondering if marine grade ( tinned copper and more strands for flexibility ) is ever considered.
We`re looking to buy a 17' trailer and our background is sailing on a 35 ' Niagara

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Old 10-14-2016, 06:38 PM   #37
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Bought some super flexible 1/0 gauge from a car stereo supplier to hook up an large inverter and for between the batteries. Even at 5250 strand, which was the highest count I could find, I could not bend it enough to close the cover on the under bench battery box. Ended up using smaller 2 gauge welder cable, still very flexible but at a fraction of the price when bought at a local welders supply.

Don't know how valid it is, but I read somewhere you can double up on smaller gauge cables to achieve a higher rating.
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Old 10-14-2016, 08:01 PM   #38
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It's also really a question of the tipping point between availability and how much you're willing to spend. AWG2 wire is ornery and stiff and costs .98¢ a foot at HomeDepot.
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Old 10-14-2016, 10:05 PM   #39
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Hello
This makes good sense. Wondering if marine grade ( tinned copper and more strands for flexibility ) is ever considered.
Nothing wrong with using deluxe wire if your credit card can take the strain. The tinning adds an extra barrier to salt water corrosion and extra flex makes for easier handling. But it doesn't have any electrical advantage over cheap wire. So if your wire is inside and protected then you might consider welding wire for flexibility and save some $$$.

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Old 10-14-2016, 10:14 PM   #40
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High conductor count cable can really carry a lot of current with minimal loss. The cables I ran between the batteries (4 total) in the front and rear of my 19 were 1/0 AWG welding cables with 998 30 gauge conductors; large but very flexible. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B019O1M9TK...0750_194349580
Reace ran two 3 AWG wires for the 2500 watt inverter I installed later. Those were low conductor count and pretty stiff. That cable size was called for in my inverter installation manal for that cable length.

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Hello
This makes good sense. Wondering if marine grade ( tinned copper and more strands for flexibility ) is ever considered.
We`re looking to buy a 17' trailer and our background is sailing on a 35 ' Niagara

cheers
George
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